Practice vs Theory (Kid Ultra)

The drones can die on their own from stray fire and AoE’s, so I’m not too worried in practice.

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Just flag it as off topic next time and all of us will see it.

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Thanks, I didn’t know that.

Yeah but a sniper in the back can do quite a bit of damage as it is before anyone realizes he’s there. People in the middle of the map where everyone is using AoE’s and bullets are flying everywhere can’t take advantage of stacking the drones but it’s not those characters I’m worried about.

Right but Marquis would need all 4 drones before he beats his original damage numbers before he got nerfed and his helix choices got nerfed. Toby is too large to not get hit quickly and if you can’t see I giant tank-suit with a penguin in it from accross the map, you need to work on your awareness, he would get off maybe 2-3 shots before he gets focus fired and the drones die in a second. Even with the drone buffs the characters that could abuse them are really not able to abuse them due to their hit box or previous nerfs. Is marquis over powered now? No. Will he be over powered for short amounts of time due to temporary buffs that are easy to counter? Maybe but not really because his damage is not fantastic to begin with. Tobi? Possibly but that is due to a team not having awareness that a hulking tank is pelting them with shots the size of orendi.

Well, late game Toby can get the helix Heartpiecer, which makes him able to shoot through enemies. As Toby, you can just keep shooting at a certain point and eventually an enemy will walk in your shot anyways. This can be from extremely far away. Minions won’t block those shots anymore, your tank won’t block those shots anymore. Just by not even trying, Toby can randomly choose a point to shoot at, keeping shooting it, and you’ll walk in it eventually. He can walk behind a wall and only show himself the moment he shoots. This can make it quite hard to get rid of him.

Not saying his drones are really OP, but being able to get to a Toby that can shoot through everything while you can’t is quite hard.

Tough but not some unbeatable strategy and it takes about a minute of game time to actually use it and it is very very easy to disrupt and while setting up this strategy Kid Ultra can’t heal anyone without using his ult, which means if there are melee on your tema you probably will have to run in the middle of everything with a very squishy character. I think in competitive play this strategy is too much of a gimmick, that would be shut down easily. For casual play, it will be effective but I have played as a melee Marquis and have been effective in casual play so take that how you will.

I only think one nerf will make Kid Ultra fit perfectly in the roster would be one of two options.

  1. Make the Bola only stun the first target hit and leave the ability to aim at a wall behind an opponent and as long as they are the first one hit they are still stunned.
    or
  2. Make the Bola stun only on Direct hits and make it so that the triple bounce will not stun past the first target. This would give players the very important choice of “Do I take the triple bounce so that I can stun more consistently if I have bad aim or do I not take the bounce so that I can stun multiple targets if they line up to the Bolas?”

If choice 2 is taken I would suggest that they switch the helix choices “Snare spread” and “Frag Astra” so that tracking which bola hit first wouldn’t be an issue because they would need to choose between 3 bolas or stunning bolas, which I think these two should be the lvl 9 choice and not the exploding bolas like who is going to take explosions over a mass stun?

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He got nerfed THIS badly? Where dealing 1 and a half times his current damage doesn’t even equal his old? Can you show me where the notes are for where they nerfed his damage so that much doesn’t even reach his old damage?

I’m trying to find it, did they remove the links to the Patch notes from all of the battleplans? I’m trying to find the notes to review. But they had nerfed the base damage on bindlebane twice in addition to halfing his passive bonus damage from 50% to 25%, in theory because of the way multipliers are additive and multiplicative I’m sure that even with the 64% or 89% damage boost he will still only really reach close to his original dmage or just barely surpass it.

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Well ik his passive nerf is only .125 less past level 5, and less before that, so the base nerf must have been quite large

His base damage nerf was 14%. A single drone would place him within 1% of his original damage and four would place him at 1.5 times his original damage per bullet not counting his passive changes.

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Ah so it would take all 4 drones for him to do damage slightly higher than what he gets when his buf activates? Still not bad considering that Kid ultra has to wait for 4 skill cooldowns IF marquis takes no damage during the entire time and Kid ultra wouldn’t be healing anyone else on the team, which is almost an entire minute. Again I still think it isn’t terribly broken and I think they should keep the stacking for the damage increase because the drones die if you even look at them lol.

You make that sound like that’s insignificant damage. Also that’s 1.5 times the pre nerf’s damage. It would be 1.8 times the current damage. Not to mention the fact that his passive would still be triggering on top of that. Every other shot would be doing 1.9 times the damage of a base shot (pre 14% damage nerf shots or 2.26 times his current damage) with the efficiency helix.

And this would never work in pugs because there’s not enough teamwork. But I’m more concerned about a pre-made team. It’s easy to have a sniper hang in the back for a bit and just fight from a safe distance while you wait on the drones. The drones also have two different helixes to reduce the cooldown on them so the wait wouldn’t be that long. Within one minute Marquis could have all four drones on him.

The thing is in competitive you are taking a decent healing option out of use for an entire minute, in addition to taking a useful skill out of battle you need the drones to stay alive for them to work so now Marquis has to not take enough damage to use up the healing and try to avoid damage to the drones above his head. This is like setting up Kleese’s rift it takes time to set up and it is powerful but easy to destroy, this is how it should be. This helix choice also give kid ultra a reason to stack the drones on a target instead of spreading them out. This is also a strategy that can be used and it really doesn’t “Break the game” like everyone says about the legendaries, why are competitive players afraid to play other competitive players using effective strategies? I don’t get that this community wants a competitive enviroment but then tries to nerf or ban everything so that every character only has their basic attacks with basic damage, and cancel all entertaining combos and strategies. Also why would any team not have a sniper in competitive play so they can deal with other snipers?

But hey I have conceded the fact that the competitive enviroment is going to be a different game altogether because people don’t even want to find out what is truly broken so they ban everything or nerf it because so and so unlikely situation may appear and it may dominate but really we would never know because we can’t even use them in a competitive enviroment.

All I’m saying is yes it is a strategy, is it overpowered? possibly on paper it seems like it can be. Is it a strategy that requires teamwork to be effectively used? Yes it is.
Is Battleborn a game about team play? Yes it is.
Should we punish those that want to use a strategy that requires more than 1 player doing something? Apparently.

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First off. I will never view this game competitively. No one should, because as much as I love Gearbox they cannot balance for ■■■■.

And I’m all for teamwork. I’ve never complained about team stun-locking or people that actually use Ghalt’s hook to help teammates kill someone but I want to bring attention to something that could potentially break the game. Competitive or no broken characters aren’t fun.

I dunno about the damage boosts, but I’ve personally found that once the drones are on an enemy they’re bloody hard to get off. They’re just the most tiny little hitboxes, and while my aim is good, it’s not that good that I can shoot a target the size of a postage stamp on a moving target.

The only time I’ve managed to successfully do it is playing as Ernest, and that was because I landed a 'splosive charge on top of his head, which coincidentally blew him off the map anyway.

Their balance is not bad dude, every moba makes these Balance mistakes, trust me I played league smite and dota, also I agree with @jokerking9211, marquis should be a sniper that awards accuracy, but he is not anymore

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Another thing about marquis, he is a sniper, people OM planned about the base damage (understandable then) but then it was nerfed to the ground along with the passive, marquis job is to suppress and punish those who stayed out of cover, and as a melee myself, what I did when I saw a marquis was make it hard for him to focus, a good marquis would lay out hoodinies to punish me somewhat and reveal me on the map, but I could still do my job against him

EDIT: a good marquis was very good pre nerfs, but this was because of accuracy that was rewarded that made sense for his gameplay

Marquis’ damage from day 1, post nerf, and with 1-4 drones. Just math, not in game stuff. The damage is over 3 consecutive shots since that’s when his passive procs.

Base

  • Day 1 - 200 + 200 + (200 x 1.5) = 700 (100%)
  • Nerfed - 170 + 170 + (170 x 1.25) = 552.5 (79%)

Drones

  • 1 - 552.5 x 1.16 = 640.9 (91.6%)
  • 2 - 552.5 x 1.16^2 = 743.4 (106.2%)
  • 3 - 552.5 x 1.16^3 = 862.4 (123.2%)
  • 4 - 552.5 x 1.16^4 = 1000.4 (143%)

I have noticed in game that the drones do stack, but I’m too lazy to make sure they are multiplicative with one another. If they are simply additive then the numbers would be lower. And remember this is just theory, as it also means no drones for anyone else, no triple Bola, it’s only at level 8, the drones can die/expend their healing, ect…

My math was done without the consideration of his passive and just the base damage nerf of 14%. You forgot that at level five he gets the choice for more passive damage on the third hit or getting the normal trigger on the second.