Proposed Drastic Boldur Changes

My thoughts on how to nerf what makes boldur a problem, while giving him a clear line for an alternative play-style via helix options, a fun way to play that might draw more people to playing him.
AXE TOSSING.

The Problem.
Boldurs passive speed without his axe is too useful, the axe is tossed primarily just for the speed bonus.
The Axe Ricochet helix conflicts with this passive bonus, and the Axe Toss cooldown reduction bonus conflicts with Axplosion.
Too much skill combo burst. (paired with everything else)

The Funfix.
Change Runes of Power to no longer make Axe Toss explode

Instead, it makes your next Axe Toss a free cooldown. Essentially he can throw the axe twice. Given that Axe Toss has a base damage of 200 and Axplosion adds 220 in an AoE, he’d still do less or similar damage by hitting the same target with both axes and not in an AoE (bleed doesnt stack)


Pinballer is godawful. You basically get to knockback/stun your target and LOSE the ability to follow up on it with meaningful damage, he’ll be free to run away before you can get back within range, this is a joke pick, it says "I have stunned you but instead of punching your crit spot for 2 seconds i’ll fly away"
Buff pinballer by making the Dash apply 16% vulnerability for 2 seconds. This would make it more of a “i help you get kills” move, instead of “i kill you myself”, his allies get 2 seconds of 16% bonus to capitalize on it. He could toss his axe at them in the air though, and thats badass. Before anyone calls it op… Long Distance Dash is the usual choice, thats the one that lets Boldur dash super far, making him extremely hard to catch and you hate when he does that. Thats a big trade.


Few people take the left option, most people just quick melee because its HIGHER DPS than the fist, and much easier to land. It seems they tried to make “punching” boldur a thing, but it never really worked out (the mutation is horrible)
The Funfix. Change stunning blow to a helix that lets you axe toss while blocking. Essential to an Axe Toss build? Maybe. You can safetly throw out a few hundred damage now and then but your shield is half strength and you cant run with it.

And thats about it. He loses his AoE burst damage and gets access to a fun/gimmicky axe tossing build, fully fleshed out he could toss his axe every 7-8 seconds + double toss for his ultimate, but he’d lose out on a lot of survivability (Death and Taxes in particular is 740hp alone for a 20% axe toss cooldown reduction) and mobility to become a melee hybrid who can harass from range.

Also -3% quickmelee damage

7 Likes

Definitely sounds like a fun way to play him. Honestly though, the #1 thing I would love to see nerfed on him is his quick melee damage.

I see your edit dwarf :wink:

AND just to add, when Boldur uses his ult, the cooldown timer shouldn’t start ticking until he finishes using it.

4 Likes

Pinballer is, by far, the worst Helix of all characters I’ve played. No use at all, that should be drastic changed.

Also, I really enjoy the fact that Boldur’s Quick Melee is useful, make his gameplay different. What about a different effect to Stunning Blows, like: When Boldur is unarmed, you can quick melee while you are blocking? (You block and quick melee with your shield, right?) Your idea is better, probably, but I’ll be happy if they work on some options to improve Quick Melee, maybe in other helixes or the mechanism itself, idk.

I think they should buff (calm guys) Boldur’s punches. The hitbox is ridiculous small, and if you are playing at any console, it’s very hard to land any hit unarmed.

Anyway, I think he’s in a good spot now. He is meant to be the best tank in the game, you can build for survivability/tankiness or for burst damage, a lot of options, helixes choices changes gameplay etc. Well, at least to a Boldur main here, lol. :smiley:

So would he be able to throw his axe three times in a row with these changes?

U should play ambra :wink: lvl 2 middle and right are by far the worst helix.

Melka has usless helix options but they dont make ur skills usless!!.

I like boldur changes but with some tweaks.

4 Likes

Two, with runes of power

Obviously you’ve never used M2 “Spike Vault”, which claims to send Mellka forward when she uses Spike (which is a ridiculous notion, who wants to leave a Spike behind them as they play Mellka? Completely obviates possibility of follow-up attacks), but in actuality shunts her off at a random oblique angle left- or right-of-center, instead of directly forward, making it less-than-worthless for its unpredictability.

3 Likes

Hey i have used it to get random directions and be un predictable, i use it like nullify and spin my cam to get behind them.

But yes it can get freaking random, in a decent match is not that great but it doesnt make ur spike usless…

Usless would be if it removed the jump and became an aoe around melka dealing +133 dmg instead of its full dmg

But don’t you get the axe back when you ult?

You do with these changes, since its not longer an explosive AoE. Runes of Power would make Axe Toss just have 1 free throw instead.

1 Like

DISCLAIMER: Boldur is one of my least-played characters. I might get some stuff wrong.
That said, my thoughts:
Funfix One:[quote=“dwarfurious, post:1, topic:1562509”]
Change Runes of Power to no longer make Axe Toss explode.
Instead, it makes your next Axe Toss a free cooldown. Essentially he can throw the axe twice. Given that Axe Toss has a base damage of 200 and Axplosion adds 220 in an AoE, he’d still do less or similar damage by hitting the same target with both axes and not in an AoE (bleed doesnt stack)
[/quote]
This is the one that I think is closest to a balanced proposal. I do worry about the ability to proc Axe Toss augs twice (bleed, damage amp); BUT, it is an ultimate, and for all I know, the AoE proc’d those as well. That said, I feel that while this is great for decreasing the AoE impact, it doesn’t actually change his burst damage that much. 400 single-target burst damage for 2 Axe Tosses vs. 420 for Exploding Axe Toss, that’s only a 5% reduction; and that’s only if we’re examining Axe Toss in isolation. There’s still the issue of his Boldurdash dealing strong damage (with RoP). Not saying he should deal no damage, my only point is that in terms of reducing single-target burst, this change doesn’t do much.


Funfix Two:

Boldur already has a damage amp aug for Axe Toss–giving him Axe Toss damage amp every 15 (12 with aug) seconds, plus a second free Axe Toss every 50 seconds (RoP), plus damage amp when he uses Boldurdash–that’s a lot of damage amp, and places him much more in support territory–he’d basically be Priority Targeting, but more often (Reyna has it every 12 seconds, as opposed to the proposed 2ce/15 seconds, plus a 3rd every 50). I would be much more comfortable with Pinballer being made more thematically consistent with its name by having it reward hitting an enemy with a cooldown reduction (say 20%) to Boldurdash (along with the bounce-back). This reinforces the theme of reward for skillful aggressive play (like the new Crash Helmet), and draws a greater distinction from the playstyle of Long-Distance Dash (which seems more geared for retreat). It also allows for team play (like your proposed damage aug) but makes it more difficult for Boldur himself to be the one to capitalize on it–still kind of edging into support territory, but now he’s a playmaker, rather than an assault-tank.


Funfix Three: [quote="dwarfurious, post:1, topic:1562509"] Change stunning blow to a helix that lets you axe toss while blocking. [...] You can safetly throw out a few hundred damage now and then but your shield is half strength and you cant run with it. [/quote]

This is the least effective one, IMO. While I agree that, as it stands, the (apparent) intent of barefisted Boldur isn’t realized, I don’t think that scrapping it entirely is the answer. Even if that was what you wanted, you’d need to change his Knockout Punch aug to finish wiping out that build. Your proposal would only hamstring it further. Additionally, the aug you propose has a very limited utility–how much time, really, are you saving by throwing Axe Toss while shielding? A second (drop shield>throw axe>raise shield)? Maybe more, like I said, I don’t play him that often, but it can’t be that much. What’s more, it’s an edge-case–if you throw the axe, you’re barefisted for 15 seconds of potential use of the current aug. With your proposal, the aug only comes into play for a second or so, and only in such circumstances as you must keep the shield up. I think that a better solution would be to lower the blocking bonus of Deft Defense (to 50%)–his ability to soak damage and regenerate simultaneously already makes him the strongest tank. Doubling the soak puts him a bit too firmly in that territory, IMO. Additionally, nerfing Deft Defense lends more value to the aug (whose name escapes me) that makes his shield unbreakable.

Those are my thoughts.

1 Like

Since the bleed doesnt doesnt stack it would really only refresh the duration, probably an extra second of bleed, it would be more efficient to throw the axes at two targets for two bleeds but then its not that bursty anymore. Bleed worked for the AoE but the Damage Amp did not. The damage amp is …still maybe not better than taking axe toss damage anyways unless you got allies around, i dont think it was taken for this reason.

Luckily the Pinballer dmg amp is only as long as the stun, im not sure how long the axe toss one is, maybe 4, so the duration for overlap would be incredibly short. A runes of power + dash + double axe tosses could let him axassinate a squishy most likely but its still less than he does now, and single target axes are trickier to hit than AoE ones

I hope nobody takes knockout punch :frowning: punching needs more than helix changes it needs hitbox changes and a QM nerf. Axe-toss while blocking Is actually something i’d like to see in action before knowing how well it would function depending on animations, it could be a very strong harassment tool, popping out and tossing an axe at people who cant shoot him back

1 Like

He isn’t even close to a good spot right now :stuck_out_tongue:

Just realized, the first Axe Toss (with the damage amp aug) would make the second one hit harder (if focusing one target)–so actually, it opens up higher burst damage.

I agree with QM nerfs+barefist hitbox buff

NERF HIM INTO THE GROUND!
#NERFS

  • Reduce Rage Duration from 6(?) seconds to 3 seconds.
  • Reduce Rage Damage Reduction from +25% to +20%
  • Reduce Unarmed Movement Speed Buff from 30% to 15%
  • Reduce Runes of Power bonus melee damage from +18% to +9.10%. Reduce Health conversion from Blocking from 25% to 20%.
  • Ekkunui Greatshield no longer benefits from Damage Reduction bonuses. This should also be the case for Galilea and ISIC

#BUFFS

  • Axe Ricochet will further reduce the CD of Axe Toss by +20%.
  • PInballer will now bounce Boldur to (1) additional nearby target dealing -50% Reduced Damage.
  • Stunning Blows will also wound the enemy for 0.5secs.
  • Berserker Rage will increase Rage Duration by 2secs.

That’s how I’d honestly want Boldur to be balanced.

There is this helix, Room For Improvement, that actually makes Toby’s forcefield easier to destroy by making it “bigger”, without actually making it harder to hit Toby behind it. It LITERALLY harms him…

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At least with that you can pop the field into a wall and make a health regen field. Beatrix’s Physician’s Eye is actually broken and does nothing at all. But her worst helix is at level 9: Reduce Outbreak cooldown time by 10% when you kill an enemy with Fulminate. You will pretty much never kill an enemy with Fulminate, and besides, it’s only 10%…

Heh, I just remembered Pellet Party. Gain no damage bonus and decrease your shotgun’s accuracy, yeah!

2 Likes

I recently addressed this^ via a PM to me, but will put it here as well, at the risk of being off-topic. Yes, you can create a large heath regen field for your team by sticking Toby’s forcefield in a wall (it works best on Monuments and Overgrowth); but you, in turn, sacrifice all of the forcefield’s other good qualities, such as the 25% boost to damage (the opportunities of which to utilize is made better by Room For Mistakes). Plus, as the forcefield’s size is increased only in width and not height, Marquis, Thorn and Whiskey can still clip the top of Berg over the forcefield, while the increased width makes it much easier for ranged characters with higher weapon spread at range (such as Montana, Ghalt, Mellka, Caldarius, etc) to destroy it.

In other words, RFI is not just useless, but actually detrimental to how most people play Toby, ESPECIALLY now that attackers deal an extra 15% damage to his forcefield.

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This is the part I never understood. Why are they able to do this in the first place? Toby needs some sort of helix (maybe just have both options give this at the level of +health or +size) that gives him DR while his forcefield is active…

This is also dumb.

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That helix is on the same line as the 15% axe toss damage helix, which would make BOTH axe tosses hit harder :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like