PSA: gbx doesn't read the Moze forum

It just breaks my heart all the hard work and hope and arguments and ideas we constantly talk about here and the changes the GBX has made based on all that is… zilch .

Nothing . Nada.

I was just at the new thread about new moze class mods ideas, and I had a big post written with my ideas to add to the spirited discussion but right before I hit the post button… I hit the back button instead. I thought what was the point ? GBX doesnt care about moze. None of the devs play her. It’s all about zane and amara . Fl4k gets shafted but Moze has it the absolute worst .


They actually do. They might often ignore what they read on purpose, for whatever reason, be it by design or not. But I wouldn’t think they would be so ignorant to blatantly disregard it.

Reddit on the other hand…

i mean look, they read somewhere that moze lacks sustain…they made that COM xD
at least they are reading the titles? XD

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Right, how hard would it be to hire on a few people to reply once in a while? Take notes and pass them up.

My take is that Gearbox reads the forums (and other social media outlets) to gather feedback on what to fix, not to look for suggestions on how to fix things.


Probably they do. But i don’t see that reflected on their decisions, specially when Moze has issues that the community has pointed out since release (some pre-release) and those issues hadn’t been addresed yet.
Maybe most of the suggestions are hard to introduce in the game or GB doesn’t want to touch how any of the VH skill tree works because that could sort of brake them or maybe we became spoiled with the weekly hotfix and patches that change how certain gun, enemy, etc functions. I don’t know those are a lot of maybes.

But i dont feel that none of those are excuses if you want that this game to be held in such high regards and have the longevity of previous titles.

i recently watched some videos from different pre-release press conferences or whatever they are called and i heard the head of the development team say how proud and excited they were about moze and iron bear, well here we are 6 months after release and seems to me that all the effort and excitment is slowly vanishing, and all that’s left is this thought of finding the faster and easier way to please the consumer and im specifically talking about fixes.
i hope that GB make me eats my words in the next patch or in the next after that one or the next after that or…

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But they can’t fix everything, and their priorities for things to fix will sometimes be different than the community’s.

To give an example, people have been asking to increase dedicated drop rates to 100% on Mayhem 4, but it doesn’t make sense to make that change (or a change like it) when you are working on Mayhem 2.0, which completely changes the way Mayhem levels work.


I’m not saying they need to fix everything.

This is post of Moze post and if fixing issues of 1 of their 4 main playable characters is not a priority, I dont know what to tell you.

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They have made significant improvements to Moze since release. For example, Iron Bear used to be terrible for higher Mayhem levels. Now it is viable in the highest Mayhem level. Please don’t discredit the work they have already done.

Like I said, their priorities for what to fix might be different than yours.


Yes, iron bear got buffed (by tweaking a few numbers) and some of the skills now work for moze and iron bear aswell. Maybe I would have liked to see a little more attention to other issues in 6 months besides a few numbers changed and a synergies that should have been there since release.

I’m not trying to discredit anybody’s work here

It seems so.




I understand the frustration and need to vent but there are better and more constructive ways :slight_smile:
Weather you play World of Warcraft, Borderlands, League of Legends, Overwatch, Call of Duty we as gamers all know the frustation of bugs, balancing, or cheaters.

It is hard to be patient when you love a game and want to spend hours and hours playing it but that patience usually pays off in big ways. Providing feedback, constructive criticism, and reporting bugs weather it via the forums, or shift support is helpful for the devs to keep track of what is going on in there games. GBX may not always make the ideal decision or fix every bug but they are trying.

Communication and transparency may not be at the level we want or even the way we want but placing blame for something we have no knowledge of helps no one. Honestly I would be more interested in seeing Blog Posts outlining upcoming changes or other fixes they are looking in to but the studio has decided to withhold such info because of how there troubleshooting and patching process works. They don’t want to talk about features or fixes that may not happen when they originally expect. They want to stick to what is happening and provide precise times and dates so they don’t end up disappointing fans if content or patches need to be pushed back.


I understand all that and I don’t expect them to rework their character until bashed heavily in public. However I will not stop talking about stuff that bothers me, until it changes or they are communicating clearly that they will NOT change it. (Like diablo 4 will not have different item sizes)…and maybe then I will keep ranting about it xD


Also the fact that IB scales from mozes health makes absolutely no sense imo.
What does the durability of a huge iron mech to do with a soldier speccing into HP or shields?
IB should have his own scaling default HP (much higher than it is right now), that can be influenced by…heck, I would even love to see a single new item just for iron bear to equip but I guess that’s too much to ask for. IB could have his own stat boosts in the class mods.

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IB health doesn’t scale from Moze’s health (he isn’t affected by TRL), so much as he benefits from Moze’s health buffs, which makes sense.

oh that would be cool “+13000 IB armor” or something?

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The fact that it doesn’t make Thematic sense is irrelevant.

The game is about numbers in the end. That’s why they pop out when you shoot things.

Interesting gameplay design boils down to mechanics.

It makes mechanical sense to correlate IB armour with Moze max health. It’s one of the things that ties them together, other than a cute storyline.

It gives a framework for her other skills to be built from, and a place for the other skill trees to spring from.

I’d go as far as to suggest, from a design perspective, it was Moze’s core concept.

The skill tree themes of shield, mags and splash were likely developed later to add complexity.

The sheer fact is you can make Iron Bear indestructible, using the right combination of skills and gear. Whilst piloting Iron Bear, Moze cannot die, or even be put in FFYL.

All things being equal, before even talking about damage, that’s a pretty powerful thing, considering the duration that can be obtained.

So that fact needs to be balanced.

In this case, it’s Moze on foot. You want massive shields? Sacrifice massive armour. Mag size? No reload skill. Damage? Survivability.

Ugh. I wanna delete this because I feel more than a bit preachy. I don’t mean to be. I love discussion about balance and I’m into the numbers side.

TL;DR sometimes things won’t make sense canonically because math and mechanic nerds like myself and others will use any bit of wonky math to break the game and make innocent things overpowered.

That’s the real balancing act for Gearbox. Making a game that’s entirely math based scale from casually shoot things to absolute challenge.

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i just think…they should not be the same thing
thats my main point of critique all the time
moze could transfer her shield to IB, he could get armor buffs from her skilltree
THATS interesting mechanics
but not just making them the same character and you just always play 1 of them by turn^^
ik thats their concept but that concept is not what many people want from a borderlands character

I mean, technically IB’s armour does directly correlate with Moze’s max health.

TRL keeps her max health the same. Debuffs like Turtle Shields and Loaded Dice reduce her max health which reduces IB’s armour.

Everyone means the same thing here, but I’d agree that IB’s armour is based on Moze’s health.

Fair enough, though I have no qualms with the mechanic. Makes builds more interesting.

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