Psycho Krieg and the Fantastic Fustercluck (speculation and discussion)

Please use Spoiler tags.

Thought I’d just start a thread to allow speculation/discussion of the fourth DLC.

What is Vaulthalla? (vault of the slain maybe)

Will we ride the poop train?

Whats Kreig’s background?

What memories are we likely to see?

Is Maya just a memory or is there more?

What sparked Tannis’s new interest in psycho’s?

ETC…

Any thoughts?

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I feel like at least one of the memories will have to do with how Krieg became… well, Krieg. My bet’s on this fellow having a role in it.
Whomst
I am very curious as to who this is. I and a few other people see resemblances to Zed, and with confirmation of Zed’s VA making a return for something, this makes me wonder if we’re finally gonna meet Ted.

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Might be. It’s definitely not Zed himself (too slender, too tall, the weird frankenstein-esque scar on the forehead) and Ned can’t be it either because he’s dead.
Since we know that Krieg was experimented on by Hyperion I’d guess this dude is associated with them.
As for Tannis (and this is really just a wild guess): I think there is a possibility that Psychos are particularily fascinated by Sirens (at least Krieg was) and Tannis might assume there is a connection.
I believe that the Maya we see in the trailer is just a memory, chances are after all that we are gonna encounter her somewhere in his mind, although the one thing that could be criticized about this is that Maya still has her Bl3 look in the trailer, whereas there’s at least as much as a chance that the last time Krieg saw her was when she still had her shorter hair etc.
If she turns out to be just a memory that might result in a somewhat interesting situation where she doesn’t know of her own demise and it would be interesting to see how she’d react.
If she is in fact NOT a memory, that raises the question of what in the heck she is doing in Kriegs consciousness and whether that’s a result of Kriegs emotional attachment towards her or Kriegs abnormal status as a kind of mutated psycho.

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Finally meeting Ted would be interesting. Wouldn’t mind seeing Zed return, it would be funny to see if his marriage that Gaige hinted at was to Tannis. (the awkward level would be huge)

That would be interesting to see.

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Looks like three possible memories for Krieg have been revealed.

Attacking COV ordered by Lilith
Train with important memories (likely Maya)
How Krieg was shaped by Hyperion

I’m gonna say that I appreciated what they did with Maya on a certain emotional level. It touched me. But it doesn’t make up for how she was handled in the main game.

That, plus fact that so many other former vaulthunters and friends are either missing or barely in the game, and lack of cohesiveness with the story between games, makes me think I’m done with Borderlands for now.

One thing though, that I’d like some clarification on if it was actually part of Maya’s soul or not. anyone know?

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I’m not really sure what the overall plan was regarding Maya. I feel like they want players to let her go, but the didn’t want to commit to a final farewell. Some of the dialogue just makes me wonder are they going to commit either way. It sounds like she maybe inside Ava or something along with all the phaselock sirens that came before her.

I think they made it pretty clear unfortunately. Believe me, I would love to have Maya back, and there’s always some small hope. But despite what I believe to be negative reception to what they did to her, I don’t think their plans will change.
Looking at you, Ava.

At this point, I don’t believe they have a plan going forward. There are no hints at what could happen other than a nursery rhyme.

It just confuses me how some of this tech works and what sirens are. Maya’s message sounds like a siren lives on through the process of passing on their powers. (leaving some kind of presence) and it sounds like Tannis can separate minds from people. (and put it somewhere else)

The ending feels half heated, and the credit sides do not indicate that Ava has any importance at this point. I don’t believe they committed one way or the other, for fear of backlash (IMHO I’m not sure if Maya’s last message to Kreig is going to change many opinions of Ava)

While I did enjoy some of the Maya scenes in this DLC, we all have to remember that it’s all in Krieg’s mind. What the other characters do and say is likely what he believes they would say and do, or what he wants them to do. (aside from the memories, but even that seems to be subject to debate)

If this is the final DLC for BL3 then GBX is in for an uphill slog. Either a season two is going to happen, or they will go straight to BL4 now.

That’s just my opinion though

Sorry for the rant

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No problems with a rant. I will say, while I enjoyed Maya’s final message to Krieg, it didn’t change my mind about Ava.
I never really hated Ava the way most people do, I just don’t care about her and how they seem to want her to be the next big character.
She shouldn’t have gotten sanctuary that’s for sure.
They also seem to want to keep Lilith around as well for some reason. If anyone should be replaced it should be her.
And wasn’t the white Maya actually her? That part confused me.

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I think that’s just an avatar meant to represent Maya, just like the other five on the opposite site of the map. (Mord, evil Mord, Brick, evil Brick, and Lilith.)

Kriegs sexy abs look even better in upgraded 3D.

But honestly im confused how well he took on the loss

It feels underdeveloped IMHO. What is sad is both GBX studios worked on this, yet it feels like some of the story was cut just like in the main game.

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The story definitely feels rushed and underdeveloped, but I wonder if that’s the incompetence of the writers or simply COVID-19. I’m sure we all expected a much grander and larger DLC (the story especially, for me) but it just wasn’t feasible :confused:

My first realization that content might’ve been cut, was the beginning. The BL3 vault hunters don’t meet Krieg in the flesh, you don’t learn where he is, what he’s doing… no. Tannis just says you need to enter a psycho’s mind and BAM! You’re there. I’m sorry but wtf? That’s it? Pretty anticlimactic way to start the story

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I just appreciate the fact it exists at all. The dev team was obviously working with a LOT of constraints and it shows. A ton of asset reuse, short side missions, and weaker art direction. It definitely blends into the background when put beside the other 3.

That being said, its to be expected. I’m sure they just as much wanted it to be better as we did. And I’m sure if Gearbox were able to make this without the pandemic, this could be easily one of the best DLCs in any BL game. Unfortunately, that’s not what we got but its definitely still solid if you take that into account. I was half-expecting to cry because of this DLC, but I went with realistic expectations so I don’t mind I didn’t.

The things that make me like this DLC are the little details they add to the existing characters. Krieg was in B-team, how he saw the Raiders, Maya’s mysterious comment about the 6 sirens, and much more. It also gave us what we were missing in BL3 in a way, like we actually saw our BL2 buds all together for the first time. And also, the most satisfying conclusion to the Max Sky side mission chain. It’s not what we expected, but I LOVE how they concluded it.

I really wish they integrated Ava into this somehow. I feel seeing Krieg and her interact is a missed opportunity. We also never see Krieg in person which would’ve been great. It’s far from the best but I think it’ll always deserve at least an honorable mention.

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@ KeepItBacon
It wouldn’t surprise me if COVID did play a part, but at the same time, it didn’t appear to hinder bounty of blood. I agree that is story DLC was anticlimactic, over the last year I believe that GBX had to come to the realization that they couldn’t please everyone. IMHO the ending was them trying to appease the Maya fanbase without committing to a bittersweet ending or fully bringing her back. That message about Ava feels like a swing and a miss, considering how the credits roll.

@gelboy
Like most games BL reuses a lot of models, just to save space. (not uncommon for the industry as a whole) But considering that they had both studios working on this, it feels underwhelming.

Like you, I like some of the little details that they did. Seeing how both Kriegs remember the Crimson Raiders was interesting.

When it comes to Ava, I’m on the fence. They have had a year to change opinions but it’s been mixed at the best of times. From my POV this DLC was GBX’s attempt to change the player’s perspective. They used what RV said in the borderlands show (Maya saw something in her) however, a least from my POV it didn’t undo any of the damage done from the main story. Leaving her in a limbo state.

In conclusion, while there were some good moments in the DLC, I wouldn’t have valued it a $20. If this is the last DLC for BL3, don’t believe that GBX has set itself up very well for continuing the main story.

Rant over, sorry again.

Just my opinion after playing the DLC

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Finished it up last night, this seems like as good a place as any to share my thoughts.

It was good in a lot of ways, fantastic even. I loved the level design and the use of returning enemies in certain sections. Would’ve liked there to be at least one more fast travel station on a few maps, though. Kind of a trek to get to the side quests.

The side quests were… a bit anticlimactic? Not to say most of them didn’t get a chuckle outta me, but most of them required you to do a total of 1 thing, and then it was done. Like Bounty, I was hoping for at least one real quest line, but got nothing of the sort. I dunno, I liked what we got 'cause they were fun little bits, but I was hoping for a little more there.

Considering part of Krieg’s deal was twisting memories, I expected a few more returning characters, but not a huge deal.

Pretty sure what they did with Maya was similar to Angel’s side quest in the main game, but I think they could’ve been clearer on that. Otherwise, I think she was handled well. Would’ve liked it if we had to tell Krieg about her passing instead of him already knowing. Missed opportunity imo.

The laboratory was more or less what I had wanted to see, can’t say I’m disappointed. The glitching/hallucinations were a great touch that did a good job at building unease. Especially that one in the dark hallway with Dr. Benedict.

Speaking of, I would’ve liked more time spent on that part. Benedict didn’t show up once in the trailers save for the splash art, and the story built him up as a pretty big deal. What we got was awesome, I thought. But I was expecting him to actually be a tangible enemy- as in he would be something that consistently interacted with us as if we were Krieg/a patient, and then we’d finally take him down. Just would’ve liked more than echo logs and recordings.

Mostly, this one’s pretty good, and I can safely say I enjoyed it, but there were a couple things that I would’ve liked to see more of.

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I have so much to say about this dlc. And I did start writing it but at six paragraphs, I’m just going to cut it down to pointers.

POSITIVES

  • Beautiful Visuals
  • Enjoyable Music
  • Fun Bossfights
  • Perfect dialogue from all the different characters
  • Interesting look at the darker side of Hyperion (though I also have a negative with this)

NEGATIVES

  • No new enemies (same stuff we’ve always been fighting)
  • Tries too hard (along with the main game) to make a complex story that just leaves more questions than answers…in fact I can’t think of much that was answered.
  • Lack of Ava (hear me out - I think this would have been a great time to flesh her a bit)
  • Lack of sidequests (they were very brief and…uneventful even)
  • Feels incredibly similar to the Claptrap DLC from TPS - almost recycled even. Though I hate saying this - Claptrap DLC did it better.

Regarding story, I know some people don’t care for it. And I also understand that not everything I want to happen will happen - and that’s completely fine. But I think they are just tying to be complex with their story - deep, mysterious etc. When really, simpler is often better.

By the end of the dlc, I felt like very little was actually addressed or answered. Which they don’t have to answer or address if it was just a fun dlc that was about going around shooting things and nothing else.

This dlc - like the previous ones - were supposed to be focused on character development and decisions that would effect the future canon. So it’s a little harder to forgive it in my eyes - because what happens is going to impact future gameplay.

There were beautiful moments in the story, don’t get me wrong, where I could see Krieg become at peace with who he is now. But there are big loops that can only be explained by ‘just because’.

How do we even get to his mind? What did we even achieve at the end (excluding Krieg being at peace with himself) as what was in vaulthalla was…admittedly underwhelming. Was it Hyperion that put vaulthalla into their psyche or is that just the Pandora effect - everyone on Pandora changes for the crazier eventually right? Where even is Krieg now - since we can just fly straight to his mind - if not on Pandora?

Though strangely, while the story tends to put me off the main game completely, I can comfortable overlook it some because the visuals are just amazing!

The third section especially - going through the bloody hallways with flashes and the eerie music? I loved that and wanted to see more of that (though the doctor boss at the end was really underwhelming…you’re telling me Krieg is terrified of this guy but his mind didn’t warp him into an invincible or just some crazy boss?).

Definitely one of the better DLCs in the game - if not THE best out of the four. That being said, it did feel empty and…I hate to say it, I feel like in a month - people will only play it again when doing challenge runs.

There’s no reason to return once you complete the limited amount of quests…

Edit : And crap. I still ranted…

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I concur with a lot of that.
I just did it today, in M-8 instead of 10, and I’m kinda glad of that.
Dev: We’ll go into a Vault Hunters Mind!
Us: You did that in Claptasic Voyage
Dev: But we’ll have discontinuous pathways and floating cubes and goofy physics!
Us: You did that in Clappy.
Dev: You’ll fight your own inner deamon at the climax!
Us: Uh, again, Clappy.
Dev: And at the end you’ll have to race against time to loot an area fast!
Us: Well, at least not Clappy, but Knoxx is looking at you.

And so on. So the tale was a bit derivative.
And yeah, the enemy choice was pedestrian, nothing new. And I got my Loader nostalgia fix in the Jackpot, didn’t need them again. What’s with the Dev team and focusing on Hyperion and Jakobs? Lets get a Tediore DLC and see what that’s like.

And golly, some bullet sponges, even only at M-8. The Train was a slog, though the first half was exciting and stressful, lots of FFYLs (that’s for picking me up Maya) but kinda weird that when I got it down to about 1/3 health no more minions appeared, I was just waiting around for the train to stop again not fighting anything. I will say I was a bit sorry I had put my sand hawks away, they would have been good for the belly of the train.
And the final boss was, I’m really sorry to say just a yawner. I never got hurt past my shield, and oh my golly gosh did it take all my pistol, SMG, and assault slugs to kill it. But it wasn’t risky, just tedious.

The story was OK, but a bit pop-philosophy trite. Nice seeing Maya again, but not engaging.

And I didn’t find any gear that I thought was better than what I had. A Maliwan shotgun? No thanks.

Of the 4 so far, this is the one that I’m least likely to replay.

But a pleasant few hour diversion I guess.

Oh, and two more little things;
The O.P.Q. System continues to be O.P. Even 7 levels below the lvl 65/66 enemies and it kills everything.

I hit max level 1/3 of the way in to the DLC. Wish I didn’t, wish the progression allowed leveling kinda smoothly along to hit max at/near the end. Now, I have no idea how to do that, it’s a tough problem, but each DLC has been about the same, level cap goes up and you max out 1/3 of the way into the DLC. Makes it a little easier than it would be if you progressed more slowly.

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Definitely thought this was one of the strong points of this DLC. It didn’t feel like a big empty area until the end.

Would have liked to have seen that myself. Maybe it’s just me but I feel like Kreig lacks emotional turmoil regarding Maya’s death, the ending just feels hollow, not insulting but more like an empty gesture, to try and pacify the backlash from the last year. I don’t believe that it will help the future of the main story.

Like you, I definitely feel like Benedict should have been flushed out more.

While I’m never going to like Ava, I would have to agree with you on this point. However, now I’m getting the vibe that GBX may do some retconning on this.

These are two questions that I’m sure many of us have. If I had to guess, I’m betting it has to do with how the main story was received, and them trying to respond without a full-blown retcon.

Again, questions that I’m sure many of us have after playing this. I’m starting to think that Krieg may just want to stay with fake Maya in his head.

Rants can be good, we all do it to various degrees.

One thing that bothers me about this DLC, is Maya makes its sound like a siren doesn’t truly die. At one point she talks about feeling all the past sirens within her, which then raises more questions than answers. Finally, I don’t see how Ava is leaving something good in the galaxy (Maya’s last message), the ghost Maya even appears to admit that she lacks training.

While it was nice to see Maya again, IMHO if feels like GBX just took some of the comments off the forums and added them to the game. (a none choice that didn’t really solve any of the problems from the main game.

Any ideas on where they will be heading after this?

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