PvP Criticisms, Take as You Will

Veteran experience in LoL, Dota, Smite, HotS, Gigantic, TF2, Planetside 2, and I got into the first Overwatch beta weekend, so that’s the basis from which I make judgments. Total disclosure, I just don’t like how the game plays and will not be back, but I do hope it improves, because I really enjoy most of the character designs, and because competition makes all options for how people spend their time better:

Having the minimap be rotation while zoomed-in on the player’s position is a huge mistake. This is a MOBA from a different perspective. As a MOBA, overall map awareness is extremely important even before you know who you’re facing: you need to know where the lanes and sidepaths lead and where the merc camps and turret spawns are on this sprawling battleground. With no way to see where things are situated at a macro level, combined with the micro issue of the map changing position depending on how you face, the game creates a very disorienting experience.

All the high color saturation on everything from terrain to characters, moving parts, particle effects, and pop-up numbers are not conducive to the snap judgements that need to be made in a PvP environment. It’s a rainbow-colored mess. I can barely make out Orendi’s basic crosshairs, let alone tell where her autos are going, how far Nullify or her ult hits, or where the Pillar will land. Meanwhile I have melee characters swarming all over the place, ranged/snipers hitting me from who-knows-where, minions who don’t die in a timely manner (possibly a fault of Orendi’s character design, I dunno, I’m not here for character balance) and don’t follow some basic rules of aggro, it’s too much.

There should be no scenario where a ranged character basically needs another ranged character to sit and watch them, lest they snipe down turrets/minions from afar. This is a result of haphazard blending of MOBA and FPS: It is not a fun or fair experience for the defenders, nor is it a compelling choice for the ranged attacker when they can sit from way, way too far and just shoot in, because no one can maneuver around the lane minions to get to them. There’s a reason ranged characters cannot do this as a standard way of life in top-down MOBAs/Smite, and why games like Gigantic and Overwatch don’t have lane minions to muck-up the shooter aspects at all.

Level-gating battlegear or whatever its called: cut this out. It’s not fun when LoL strips out key components of building a character by locking away runes, masteries, and summoner spells; it’s not fun when HotS locks out talents because you aren’t high enough meta-level with the character. It’s simply not fun or reasonable to jump into PvP as a new player and figure out you’re at a numerical disadvantage because of a system you cannot access yet, making you an objective liability to winning before you even spawn. The game certainly isn’t worried about overloading players with distractions and information, I’m not sure why it was decided this should be wear restraint is shown.

2 Likes

I agree with you.
Oh, man I was so excited about this game but I didn’t read between the lines.
It reminds me of SMITE with annoying AI added to the mix. I’m a competive gamer that loves action but unfortunately this game missed the mark. Why would you add AI into a PVP mode? It’s not fun killing 50 minion’s and 10 player kills and its hardly competive.
Make it 30 vs 30 and take out the AI.
The enemy’s are boring. They pretty much run a straight line and not even a challenge.
I’m guessing this is for the casual gamer that doesn’t like thier skills tested at every turn. I’m sorry but I like it when my heart starts pumping hard as I get a 20 kill streak on PLAYERS.
The sad thing is that it’s a Beta and it’s too late in development for major changes.

I think your veteran experience here might be the source of your arguments against the PvP. It seems like you’ve had too many other games that you obviously enjoyed to compare it to. I tried LoL and Dota and simply didn’t like them. I have very little to no experience in online PvP and I’m having an absolute blast with battleborn. Knowing the map, reading the environment/battle, countering certain characters… all easily fixed by practice. I use the minimap to locate enemy heroes but i otherwise know exactly where i am and where to go without needing the map. Reading the battles and enemies definitely gets messy at the best of times but with enough practice you learn to keep up with what’s going on. Damn near everything in this game is a bullet sponge. But to criticise all of this as game flaws would be wrong imo. It sounds more like your perspective is skewed by comparing it to other PvP games that are just different to battleborn. You simply might just not like it for the game it is

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Well, the game is MOBA like, but it’s impossible to compare it to other Games out there. You can compare DotA and LoL but not BB. I’ve even seen ppl that missed stuff from Team Fortress 2. But this is a completely new thing. It has similarities, but it’s something different. People dislike the game because it’s something new, but isn’t that a good thing? If it would be another LoL (there are enough), then there would be no use for the game. I even agree with some points, but the game is the way it is. And you either try it, or Stick to all the other Games you mentioned.

I miss the times when there were hardly advertising, you just bought a new SNES game, learned the game and how to play it, adapted it and it was fine. Now everyone has an opinion on what is wrong with the game and wants to change it, instead of learning the game. There would be no Innovation if all the pvp Games would be so like each other.

it wasn’t like this in the closed test. idk what these guys were thinking when they made some of the decisions and changes they made. the test was incredible. this is not incredible. i am a VERY competitive person. i play other games at a high level competitively, and this game satisfied me in that way, and it was way more fun during the test. now it is a mess, tbh.

saying something like i just said, that its a mess, should require more specific reasons why its a mess, so ill give them. Firstly, the test was available on all platforms at the exact same time. This was not. Obviously playstation got exclusivity, why? there is only one answer to that question, and it is what you get when you press shift before pressing 4 on any keyboard. That is bullshiit. Secondly, why in the freaking world would they command rank/challenge block characters in a 5 day beta? Again, i am a competitive person. I should not be forced to either play on characters i dont want to play on, or grind the pve component to the game that i have no interest in simply to unlock the characters i want to play. It makes no sense.

And most importantly, if you read the feedback from the playstation guys that have had the beta for 5 days already, the information is exactly what i told everyone it would be. You nerf stuff in a closed test when no one even knows what they’re doing and all the characters aren’t available, and you end up with a mess. Now people are crying for other nerfs, and they’re probably right. they are crying for a galilea or whatever her name is, and an ambra nerf. Rath i think got nerfed a little, and phoebe got completely destroyed. Leave those two players alone, and then we would have a solid pool of 4 strong assassins at the very least. Instead we have a useless phoebe, a meh rath, and two other characters causing tons of cries for nerfs. I told everyone months ago that when they nerfed people it would just start an endless chain of nerfs. NO amount of testing that we do is as sound as the testing they did before the test came out. That testing was balanced, this is not. I will not be playing anymore of the beta most likely. I will wait to see what they do before the main game

Your blowing things way out of proportion as far as the character balance goes, Rath is pretty much perfect right now and Phoebe just needs a minor adjusting to her skills. Galilea is mostly overpowered right now due to one specific helix she has, and Ambra again just needs some minor adjusting. Games are not being won because one team has an Ambra and Galilea, but because most of the playerbase is still learning the basics of the game and aren’t fully aware of every character’s abilities.

and people were blowing things out of proportion when they were talking about phoebe and rath. galilea and ambra are next. then who after that? the adjustments were made at a time when no one knew what they were doing, much like now. It was too soon to nerf then, and its too soon now. This is a pattern, my good sir. One that began way prematurely and will not change with time. Ive seen this all before

Phoebe and Rath actually feel perfect after the balance changes that Gearbox made. I, for one, think they know what they are doing.

i am willing to bet my first born that statistically they are getting smoked by ambras and galileas. this beta will yield the same information the test did. then they will nerf them both to some degree, then there will be someone else to get pulled into the vacuum. idk how many other games you have played competitively at a high level, but it ALWAYS plays out the exact same way. things are over nerfed, then something else fills its spot. then it gets over nerfed, and so on and so forth.

just because you could not counter phoebe does not mean she needed to be nerfed, because she was being countered on a regular basis. if you could counter her, then she did not need to be nerfed. so which is it?

anyone from gearbox would tell you that they are just trying things out to try to find a balance. if they are honest, and they usually are, they would admit that they are still pretty far off. nerfing was not the way to fix anything

A MOBA is typical a game where you escort minions. It pretty much the genre itself. Not being a dick, but if you just want to play a “Hero shooter:” you should just get Overwatch. No minions, no towers, just basic FPS game modes.

So the question is, why is that in 7 days no one pointed out that the map rotation can be avoided by simply selecting the proper option ? The game allows you to choose if you want it to be rotating or not, and global or radar like as well.
I personally played with the radar/do not rotate option most of the time. I dislike rotating maps.
As for the colours, tweaking around in the options to see what is best for you can solve part of the problem as well.
Also, “progression is not fun” could suml up the level gating complaint you’re doing her. Sorry but lots of people enjoy progression and reward for it. Technically all choice in the helix are supposed to be interesting, so playing more is supposed to give you more choice, but not better choices. Personally during the beta, I wasn’t taking the mutation most of the time even after unlocking them. I’m sure there are mutation that are far too good compared to the other options, but that should be corrected rather than having those mutations available from the start.