PvP Guide to Thorn: Because Green Is The Deadliest Color


#21

Yeah, I went kind of in depth about draw strength on my final guide that I’ve been writing. Hoping to have it up by Monday evening.


(The MONTANA!!) #22

Yeah as I said, the two are hard to choose between, but it always comes down to playstyle, and the enemy team selected.
This was one of my best matches, and I killed their Miko about 5 times. One of them was with draw strength.


#23

Ah, nice. I usually go something similar to that, with my best being I think 23/0. I prob have an image of it around here somerwhere that I can go fishing for if I felt like it.


(The MONTANA!!) #24

Sometimes I wonder if she needs toned down a bit, but then I think back to how long it took to get really consistently good with her. She’s one of those that will do really good if the player is skilled and smart when using her. Not like others that people can wreck with little practice. Would hate to see a nerf on her.


(Where's lucky?) #25

I think an important thing to remember here is the helix system is built for choice, there is not really a right and wrong. This game has many different situations and play styles where you might want to spec differently.

Depending on your team, enemies team, mode, role, etc…

The game is built to make choices depending on many factors and not stick with one build for 100’s of hours. This is partially why we start every match at 0.


(Jeanpertica) #26

Let’s be real. There are plenty of bad choices in Thorn’s helix. And all of them are Blight Brawler.


(The MONTANA!!) #27

I think I’m going to be the devils advocate and argue that even blight brawler is viable. Let’s say you are against a melee heavy team. If you are going to be picking helix choices to strengthen your blight, and the curse ability as well. You could back a melee character into a corner, put down a blight, and just keep melee hitting them into the blight. If you make sure to stand in it every now and then you will curse them, making blight do much more damage. If you take the helix option that gives blight an extra six second duration, it might be enough to kill some characters. I personally would rather have fell wind, especially against a melee heavy team, but I’m sure it’s viable in some situations.


(Jeanpertica) #28

I feel like that’s way too situational to be viable. Trying to corner melee characters doesn’t put you in an optimal range. Thorn can do very well outside of a melee characters range. Ruining your distance advantage in the hopes of getting a corner trap isn’t a good idea.


(The MONTANA!!) #29

I do agree that it’s not very viable, but it could be helpful in some situations. Although I think to make it more viable would be if it made all her melee attacks curse enemies. It’s pretty limited to you have to stand in blight for it to work. If it was made to curse on any melee hits, it could actually be pretty viable. Much less situational. Say a Galilea runs at you. Quick melee to curse and add distAnce. Put a volley in her dome, maybe put down a blight to. That would actually be a really deadly combo, and I think it would work well against any melee character, and some non melee as well. Would it be enough to take it over fell wind? If they did that it might actually be worth it. Would defiantly give a decent advantage against melee characters


(Jeanpertica) #30

Completely agree with that. Hopefully Gearbox is willing to tweak the helixes at some point. We’ll see down the line.


#31

I agree. This guide was more of a fast track suggested way to play her that I wrote the day before beta ended because I saw a bunch of people struggling. I wasn’t meaning to dictate the way people play, but it was more of a “Oh, you’re having problems? Try starting here!” kind of deal.

I stated I think a few comments up that I was writing a final guide on release - pretty much scraping this one. It’ll be more about her options, suggestions on playstyle, and how you might want to build her depending on how you play her. Little tidbits about her skills, and trade offs you take when you choose certain helix options.

Hopefully I can get that guide up sometime tomorrow before servers launch.


As far as Blight Brawler goes, I think it’s pretty meh. I do occasionally melee my enemies, but its only if I they get out of my blight, and I’ll just boop them back into it. Blight Brawler seems almost counter productive unless you have them in a corner, because you’ll curse them, but also likely hit them out of the Blight, losing lots of dps.

Having your melee blight would be really interesting. It would definitely add some spice to Thorns helix. I think I would personally still take Fell Wind almost always though because of the versatility it offers.


(Jeanpertica) #32

As much as I swear by Fell Wind, Blight Brawler cursing on all melee hits would make me strongly consider choosing it if the other team likes to rush down very hard. It would make her threatening up close. Then she has solid fighting capability at all ranges.


(Salsacookies) #33

I could see Blight Brawler working well if you decided to make a more stationary Thorn, with the other helix that curses arrows on blight. If someone gets too close, just whack them, then hit them with a volley.


(Jeanpertica) #34

A stationary Thorn is a dead Thorn. I can’t see myself recommending that sort of build to someone.


(The MONTANA!!) #35

A stationary thorn is a very bad idea for any sort of life length. I do enjoy making her very mobile. Fell wind is very detrimental for escaping in a tight spot as well. I usually go for a pretty blight heavy thorn personally. When you get the damage buff on it+duration+slow effect, it’s very deadly. If my team isn’t very good I can usually hold a lane by myself. I had one team that could play well, but would completely ignore minions. The few times I died that match, we would go from being close to their sentry, to them completely on top of ours. Ended the match with over 120 minion kills, and the next highest on my team had about 15-20. Blight is invaluable for keeping minions pushed back. Also I actually like the mutation that makes volley only have three arrows. The spread on the three is crazy tight. Very useful when facing a team mostly built with small quick people. Not sure exactly how much damage I lose against having the 7 spread, but I don’t see all seven hitting very often unless it’s against someone big like Montana, or my bow is literally sticking through their face. I usually don’t like getting that hugely close to other people. I can see how it would be great for minions, but I usually use blight on minions, and volley on players.


#36

Any damage you do in lane will push it. I tend to go a volley build - as you can probably see from my build. I’ll throw down a blight and volley the minions, then kill the big one and leave. My friend that I usually play with (he plays Benedict and OM) and I tend to play really, and I mean really aggressive. We don’t play it just like a TDM, as we do clear minions at the start, but we suffocate our enemy team to the point where they just have to stay around their base. We’ll then just farm crystals and build turrets to do the minion work until the enemy team surrenders lol. Never lost a game when we played together, and we even won an insane 2v5 where the enemy team surrendered because we pressured them so hard.

I’m really iffy on the 3 arrow volley mutation - but I’m more just afraid of missing. I’ve tried them once and I only missed a few, but I was so scared to miss because it meant my damage was gone, lol. I could do the math on the damage, but maybe some other time, as I’m already supposed to be doing homework right now :frowning: It’s all preference though. Really the only time I can of where I counted my lucky stars I had 7 volley was I was chasing this Orendi who had very little health. I cursed her and she nullified to get her shield back and retreated to near one of the stairwells on paradise. I ran in, and she tried to just run by me as a juke attempt (I guess?), and I shot my volley, hitting her, but it also ricochet’d between two walls three times. I went back to watch the clip, and the first hit didn’t even hill her, it was the second hit of volleys that ricochet’d between the walls that hit her. Probably wouldn’t have happened with 3 arrows, but at the same time, the 3 arrows probably would have gotten the kill without the ricochet.


(The MONTANA!!) #37

It does suck when the three arrow volley misses, but I don’t have that problem as much anymore as I did when I still learning her. I’ve netted myself a decent amount of kills with the three volley at a distance that wouldn’t have been possible with the seven arrow volley. The ricochet can defiantly be a huge advantage with the seven arrow volley. Especially in the hallways in overgrowth. That is a very good spot for a seven arrow volley, especially if it’s got more than two of the other team in there. The three arrow volley does have the drawback of less ricochet chance, but I do personally like the tight group. It’s actually really good at taking out the enemy supply stations, and thumper turrets at a distance. In paradise the dividing wall between 1st sentry and middle area, I can stand by that and hit the supply station with all three arrows. Same with the turret and any enemies hanging by the supply station. Especially with vault jumper.


#38

Yeah, it’s definitely all something to be considered. I’ll definitely try it some more tomorrow nice when the servers go online :slight_smile:


(The MONTANA!!) #39

26 hours can’t wait :clock10::grinning:


(The MONTANA!!) #40

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=tHegCYoZNvU
Short compilation video of some of my Thorn gameplay. Most of it is from one match.
Has a few spots where draw strength was very helpful, and shows a different build leaning much more heavily on blight than volley.
Also I’m pretty sure draw strength does not affect volley at all. After looking through the video, I never saw a moment where my volley went through enemies. So the above posts stating draw strength made piercing volley pointless is not true.