Quantum Precision helix mutation nerf way too much, especially in PvE

Ulithium_Dragon · June 20, 2019, 11:13am

Anyone else feel like the recent nerf to the Quantum Precision helix mutation was waaaay too strong?

I feel this is particularly true in PvE, but it just seems to do laughably less DPS than his normal energy blasts in general now, and at least with the normal projectiles if you miss your shot it doesn’t cost you so heavily…

Overall I just feel so pathetic playing Kleese now - everything seems to do so little damage, and even my energy rifts are getting creamed so fast by just minor enemies and minions…

*Yeah I know he’s supposed to be more of a support character, but his damage is so low now that I swear to god even Miko does more DPS than him. :L

EDIT: Also I just noticed this UI bug as well lol:

epicender584 · August 13, 2016, 9:03pm

The left has always been true. It scales with damage, and at level 0, is 0. He has a few things like that though. I think, 3, in total?

cadecampbell · August 15, 2016, 6:25pm

The damage on slam chair is horrible anyway for getting rid of all energy, if it was high it would be good

phantomvirus17 · August 15, 2016, 6:37pm

Are we just talking about the wrist cannon? Or his overall dps in general? I’ve only played a handful of PvE missions with him (was still one of top scorers) since his update, but he absolutely wrecks (if played correctly) in PvP (almost to the point of needing a damage or health nerf).
If you are just talking about his wrist cannon though, then yes, sadly it is not worth taking unless you are one of those crack shots who crits almost every time.

timtoborne · August 15, 2016, 6:45pm

If you think that’s bad, how about his 38 heal per second health chair?

Miko can get 170 health per second, and he doesn’t even need to be inside their assh*le to heal them.

The 120 hps may have been too much, but 38 does NOT justify how close you have to be to heal them. 75 or 80 seems fair given his shielding capabilities, but if you’re going to make the heal chair useless, I’d rather you just change it entirely.

EDIT: Sorry, I used to love Kleese.

Kaleidodemon · August 15, 2016, 7:03pm

They overnerfed the chair and will probably be buffing it back up a little bit. Not to the original numbers but it should be better than it is now. Would be nice if it happens soon, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

phantomvirus17 · August 15, 2016, 7:13pm

I read about the heal increase, and I am happier for it. But they need to tone down the dps (or range) on his taser (by a LOT) or he will be a taser spewing-floating-deathtank-of doom WITH decent heals/second for peeps next to him. Yikes…

Kaleidodemon · August 15, 2016, 7:14pm

I can’t say that I’ve heard about anything regarding his health or his damage. We’ll just have to see what the devs decide to do after they’ve collected the data they want after all the latest changes.

CharacterIV · August 15, 2016, 7:32pm

Guh? Are we talking about the same Kleese? The guy who’s now tanky enough to just lock on to nearly any Battleborn with his taser like an electric alligator and just NOT. LET. GO. UNTIL. THEY. ARE. DEAD?

The health buff has made Kleese crazy-time-banana-pants. I mean, he’s not a sniper, but with his big hitbox and no zoom he probably shouldn’t be trying to be one, anyway. (I never really used Quantum Precision, of course.)

I just don’t know how ANY Kleese player can be PO’ed by what he’s become. Yes, Heal Chair is kinda poo-on-a-stick, I’m having trouble coping with that myself, but that just opens the door for MORE electric taser death fun!

phantomvirus17 · August 15, 2016, 7:36pm

When I think of kleese, I see a frail (there needs to be a lot of emphasis on frail) old guy using tech to kick the butts of the “younger generations.” I can see the justification (to some degree) in giving him a little more health (the enemy is not only shooting him, they’re also shooting his Battle throne; which would have a lot of health). But an 88% increase? Before his health buff I will agree that he was far too frail to be considered much of a threat if he even took 1 step outside his rift network. Now he can float out of his rift network (while tasing you) chase you down well beyond his rift network, and dps you so hard into the ground you’ll wonder how they justify him being a “support,” after which he’ll use the remainder of his vast hp to make it back to the safety of his rifts. This exact scenario has happened to me or one of my teammates far too often since the update.
Yes, there are (very) hard counters for Kleese (Thorn is at the very top of the list), but with a decent team, I have seen Kleese DOMINATE a match (27-0). No support should be able to do that (unless people keep suiciding into his rifts).

CharacterIV · August 15, 2016, 7:53pm

Remember, according to the Devs, Kleese was ALWAYS supposed to have this much health. They say there was a bug or something that resulted in him having lower health.

Many are skeptical. I suppose I am a BIT, because it seems like that’s a bug you’d want to have fixed immediately, and it took them a while to do it. But I also don’t know why they’d be deceitful about something like this. It’s just as easy to say “we wanted to buff up Kleese’s health 'cause his hitbox is just so darn big,” as it would be to say “there was a bug, this is how he was supposed to be.”

So that’s why I believe them. NOTHING to gain from deceit, so why bother?

timtoborne · August 15, 2016, 8:04pm

Please. 120 was too much, but 38 is nothing.

Ulithium_Dragon · August 15, 2016, 8:53pm

Keep in mind guys that my comments are primarily concerning PvE Story Missions. Gearbox’s insistence on trying to “balance” PvP (which is honestly impossible lol) are negatively impacting PvE for a lot characters.

I really hope his Shock Taser doesn’t get a nerf, as it’s already sub-par at best in PvE…

Why don’t they just keep two separate stat tables for PvE and PvP? THAT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION… =.=

phantomvirus17 · August 15, 2016, 9:19pm

I agree to some point, but have you tasered any of the golems? It melts them like a hot laser (hehe) through butter.
Unless you’re playing the ‘defend’ missions (renegade, experiment, saboteur) Kleese does take a background role, as it’s hard to set up rift networks when on the move. When playing Kleese in story, especially after how hard his heals got nerfed, I play him like a semi-mobile fortress. I will place 1 or 2 rifts near myself, and the rest near melee BB or enemy lanes. I sadly do not rely on his heal chair as a primary source of healing, rather one that keeps the team in tip-top shape when we’re going from 1 engagement to the next.
I do think they need to tone down his ‘outside of rift damage’ and do sorta like what they did for ambra’s c/d on her sunspots; and increase his heal power. This would make him more useful in missions where he can’t stay in the same spot for very long.

CharacterIV · August 15, 2016, 9:37pm

Whuh?

Beyond this, it also eats shields, which is great for ANY robot PvE enemies or Thrall Beastmasters, and even PvE boppers like Evolved Thralls and Brutes are so much less maneuverable/stupider than players that even Kleese’s slow-ride-glide can dance around them while siphoning down their life, especially if you warmed them up with some slowing Mortars.

Sure, it doesn’t work quite fast enough against a big multi-spawn of Evolved from an anchor or anything, but Kleese isn’t meant to handle those kind of situations. He’s back row. He shoots his pew-pew laser through gaps between Montana and Oscar Mike while they engage in a bullet-spray party in his rift network and he shocks anybody who manages to survive closing to melee distance against the ranged boppers.

Kleese can work in PvE like a cleaner wrasse, or those little birds that ride on a rhino. Eventually, Attikus is gonna get rushed on all sides, and you come in with your taser and pick the parasites off your brobdingnagian buddy.

cadecampbell · August 15, 2016, 9:41pm

If he keeps health he should have a damage multiplier on his body and extra for his head

Ulithium_Dragon · August 17, 2016, 8:55pm

The reason it works so well on the golems is simply because they have VERY low health.

They compensate for this fact by having only ONE place on their bodies were you can actually do damage to them, and often throwing an ice/rock shield over it as well.

All classes would melt the golems just as easily if they were doing extremely accurate hits to their one weak spot - the only difference with Kleese’s shock taser or Ambra’s life drain is that they auto-target and lock onto the weak spot for you, and don’t require line of site with the weak spot.

This is also why area-of-effect spells like Thorn’s blight are so damn effective at creaming these guys - cuz they ally damage to they directly and do not need to be hitting their weak spots.

The point of me saying the above is just to point out the this one scenario is not a good representation of the shack taser’s DPS output. :]

Ulithium_Dragon · August 17, 2016, 8:58pm

Well yeah exactly - there are only 3 maps where you are ever NOT on the move constantly lmao.

Coincidentally, those are my least favorite kinds of maps - I don’t play this fast-paced game to play a camping simulator… =.=

reliikki · June 20, 2019, 11:13am

So frail. Like throwing marshmallows at enemies!

in truth I have no idea what happened here though. I ulted Kleese as Deande, Ghalt hooked him and I died immediately.

Also, Kleese can 100-0 pretty much anyone with those pokeballs of his.