Question About Hyperion Weapons

The decreasing recoil gimmick of Hyperion weapons is pretty well-known, but I realised when thinking about why I dislike Hyperion snipers that I am missing one potentially useful piece of information:

Does the accuracy statistic on the weapon card refer to the initial accuracy on the first shot, or the final accuracy on the last shot?

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This is just thinking aloud, so i’m not saying I know, but i’d say they’re the same. If you get the spot with any shot the accuracy is that number, but it’s harder to hit it with the first couple of shots. Just a theory, of course. I’m sure people here know much more than I do.

Pretty sure it’s the maximum accuracy, as in smallest crosshair.

One thing about Hyperion snipers which make them different from other types of Hyperion weapons is they have improved accuracy when you hold ADS even if you don’t fire a single shot, so you can definitely get maximum accuracy for that first shot of the fight. CMIIW though.

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I’ve come to interpret Accuracy as likelihood the shot fired will hit the sighted target. Weapon sway impacts your ability to stay on a particular target but on Hyperion snipers it’s not normal weapon sway. Their reverse recoil is an oddity when it comes to considering accuracy. Recoil from the gun kicking back on most other weapon manufacturers only effects accuracy if you’re pushing the fire rate higher than the amount of time it takes to recover from the previous shot. If you allow for the kickback max accuracy is back in effect.

That being the case, preemptive kickback/ recoil that reduces with each shot “should” be a separate factor and not included in the accuracy stat on the item card. Thinking that way, accuracy equates to the bullet landing where the cross hairs are pointed, be it a single shot or a spread/ burst. Regardless of weapon sway, recoil, or the unsteady hand of a player, wherever the cross hairs were when the shot was fired is where the projectile will land the higher the accuracy, when firing at the optimal rate to minimize recoil.

In a nutshell, reverse recoil is dumb and Hyperion weapons are pinpoint accurate, just had to control initially.

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Quoted for truth!

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Not sure if you know this yet, but people seem to miss this about Hyperion snipers:
They stabelize on their own once you use the sight. It’s stil annoying but you can avoid the first few inaccurate shots with some patience.

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I generally avoid Hyperion weapons with the exception of the Conference Call- my aim is problematic enough as it is w/o artificial aid adding to it :slight_smile:

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Well, it would make sense that “reverse recoil” would simply be overcome by waiting to recover from the kickback to shoot, as is the case with real recoil. The assumption is that Hyperion weapons will start with the worst possible recoil and improve as you fire the same way other weapons gain recoil as fire rate increases and persists.

I don’t know what’s in the code, but as it stands I imagine weapon type, fire rate, and rarity are factors in the recoil. At least I hope it’s not just arbitrary. ADS improves the accuracy of all weapons, so having it impact reverse recoil seems like a good bonus.

Does the stability acc helps with Hyperion reverse recoil? Be it pistols or sniper rifles.
I always get the feel that pistols with the stability get the max accuracy faster and kick less.

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Thanks for the confirmation.

IIRC any recoil reduction from any source make Hyperion weapons worse, because recoil reduction will “hold” the weapon from reaching maximum accuracy faster, as in smallest crosshair.

That’s the reason why I don’t invest in recoil reduction in BAR. Saves me few percents for other stats.

I know it’s why you have to be careful with Sal if you also want to build around Hyperion shotguns.

[quote=“Isthiswill, post:4, topic:1560802”]In a nutshell, reverse recoil is dumb[/quote] I think it’s an acceptable tradeoff for weapons whose other traits are decent stats with high accuracy. Without some gimmick like that, they’d be too good? Shotguns don’t suffer too much from this, and their sniper rifles reach max accuracy after a moment aiming down the sights. For automatic weapons like their pistols and SMGs, what you get for writing off the first few shots is not only high accuracy for much of the magazine, but a very stable, very precise bullet stream.

My grievance is with the execution of the mechanic. For weapons that suffer the maximum penalty on the first shot like… The Bane, it’s at it’s worst. Compare it to the Lady First and the connection between fire rate of weapons and the severity of recoil seems to be affirmed. With those two weapons wasted shots when critical hits are their specialty is a nuisance at worst, and hazardous at worst, especially considering that their recoil is so severe in contrast to other weapons of the same type from other manufactures at max recoil. I take issue with the recoil being so exaggerated on certain Hyperion weapons. On their shotguns the spread compensates for the negligible unsteadiness. On pistols and smgs it’s just wasted shots.

The way the weapons start off makes it seem that if the recoil wasn’t reversed Hyperion weapons would have worse recoil than Jacob’s. They kick like Launchers in Borderlands 1, which seems a little much.

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Hyperion: a company that makes inferior weapons but is successful through aggressive marketing, financial manoeuvres, assassination, and outright warfare.* Truly, a company that lives up to its name!

(*) See the founders’ epitaphs in the Hyperion Hall of Heroism in TPS for details.

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Right, but for pistols and SMGs, given an entire magazine, would you rather have a couple shots go wide at first and have the rest of the magazine at high, stable accuracy so it’s easier to get them all on the critical spot, or have the first couple shots be accurate with the rest of the magazine trying to fly all over the place?

For sniper rifles, sure (and you get this with their sniper rifles if you aim down the sights for a moment), but for weapons that aren’t meant for one-shot sniping, we get a majority of the magazine coming out at high, stable accuracy.

Good point @VaultHunter101 wonder if the evidence backs it up?

I’m going to focus on BL2 since that is potentially the last batch of Hyperion weapons that will be made, that we know of:

Great Pistols of note:

Lady First - TK Baha made it, but it was a Hyperion gun in BL1, so did they buy this design prior to having him assassinated?

Fibber - Two out of Three of the barrel types are very very good.

Great Shotguns:

Heartbreaker
Conference Call
Interfacer
Slowhand
Crowdsourcing, Development, Thinking varieties

Great SMGs:

The Bitch
The Actualizer
Plasma Casters

Snipers:

Fremington’s Edge
Morning Star
Longbow

Hyperion seemed to rely on 3 gimmicks:
Talking weapons (shotgun 1340, the Bane, Morning Star)
Reverse Recoil
Cornering the market on E-tech after buying out Atlas, who were the pioneers of the eridian technology.

The Invader borrows the Dahl burst fire mechanism so I guess they stole that.
The Butcher takes a page from the Vladof Infinity. I forget which manufacturers had ammo regen in BL1, there were so many legendariers that did.

@Adabiviak Depends on my target. Marauders, scavengers, suicide or iron clad psychos, Rabid ANything I need those first shots to hit with my medium to close range weapons. Wasted shots means an expedited reload, given those wild and woolly fast moving erratic targets a chance to close distance and do some major harm if I’m in the thick of it, or force me to backpedal myself. Missing and aggroing a target isn’t a problem if they are attacking head on in a predictable pattern, but if the weapon I have needs a crit to do enough damage to stun them or put them down, I probably won’t be using one of the wilder hyperion weapons to get the jump on them.

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The Tediore legendaries had ammo regen but were otherwise pretty average guns.

The odd thing is how superior Hyperion guns were in BL1. Stable, precise, powerful. They were my gun of choice, but a BL2 Hyp SMG…blech

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Probably “appropriated” it, just like they did TK’s Wave. (BL2 echoes during the revenge quest mission)

Two of those are Moxxi weapons; since they aren’t in either BL1 or TPS, I’m assuming that Jack “appropriated” Moxxi’s designs for himself, and later put them into production as a form of revenge.

For $1 (see relevant TftB episode) under duress.

I see a pattern here…

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Well, the Tidal Wave is a Jakob’s shotgun, and Hyperion never got the designs since they’re in the Jakob’s vending machine (which explains my question about why it wasn’t a Hyperion weapon even though Hyperion offers one of their weapons as a reward).

In the context of the game, Moxxi gives you the Heartbreaker, so maybe she had Jack make it for her when they were together? The Slowhand is a drop in the Campaign of Carnage when you are working for Moxxi, since she is your sponsor/ promoter. Seeing as she has plans to build a new Underdome there, we can assume the Slowhand was from her personal stockpile as well, and was either wagered or taken by Piston in the midst of defeating someone else she sponsored along the way. Or not. Do they ever even hint at who’s sponsoring Piston, if anyone?

When you think about it, Moxxi gives you all her weapons throughout the game, with the Crit, Creamer, Hail, and Slowhand being the only exceptions I can think of offhand. Those all come from fighting in arenas, which was sort of her racket. Admittedly t they are a throwback to the arenas in BL 1 before the Underdome DLC as well. Innuendo bot is her proxy and gives you her sniper.

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