Question about mission reward levels/scaling

So I have a semi-related scaling issue. I’m in TVHM and I’m on the story mission “A Train to Catch” and need to defeat Wilhelm. This was easy in story so I didn’t pay attention but my mission is level 37. I’m level 38. However, Wilhelm is 40? He is sort of mopping the floor with me.

The difficulty of the quest is just “normal” so do I just suck and it’s normal for him to be 3 levels above the mission or do I need to go level more to beat him at 39 or 40?

Willhelm - like any named boss - will always be +2 levels. So it comes down to tactics. Ideally you want a decent shock and corrosive weapon/grenade combo. Strip his shield and corrode the rest.

There’s some tactics advice here:

Click on the “End of the Line” internal link

Well I was doing that but it wasn’t working. I guess for TVHM I will have to make sure I have an appropriate weapon that is closer to being “on level” before I attempt it. Going by how I’m doing prior to taking on the boss or going by the quest level doesn’t seem to matter.

You might get lucky with the Golden Chest if you have some keys. I think most people do the Tina Tea Party mission and get the Tea Pot. It’s similar to the Hornet, but it should be much closer to on-level. Alternatively, you could try hitting the various red chests around Tundra Express - there’s one below the path up to Mdm. von Bartelsby, one in the camp you retrieve the Badonkadonks from (on the side nearest the train track entrance), and one in the Varkid observatory (shoot the switch from outside on the roof then drop down to the entrance).

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You may also be able to get a good Baby Maker from her, I’ve used a shock Baby M. on Wilhelm to good effect.

I was sure I linked this, maybe on another thread :

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Well I knew about that. That list is good for mission rewards that have gear. I was talking about missions that don’t have gear rewards but only offer Eridium so you could focus on them for XP and SDU upgrades without locking in gear missions at lower levels by accident.

a Harold (30-ish level) will kill wilhelm without any problem.

Pick a quest and check if it’s on that list.
and all quests show you the reward before you accept it, so you can check how much XP and eridium you get before accepting one.

More scaling questions…just when I thought I was getting how scaling works I run into this. I finished TVHM. I started UVHM at 50. I started doing some DLC. I did the Marcus train DLC and enemies were the expected level of 50-51. I started the Tiny DLC and most stuff is 51 or 52…OK. 2 levels higher is hard but doable. I hit 51 in the forest zone and run into this guy:

Seriously? Level 56 when I’m 51? I don’t get it. I managed to wittle him down to about 10% health but completely ran out of ammo and died. WTF is this scaling? How am I expected to kill UVHM enemies 5 levels above me? o.O

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that is a warlord orc who levelled up, i think 3 times. if you don’t have good gears yet, just run.

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Oh OK. I guess I don’t get a lot of what is going on in this DLC. I didn’t even know that was a thing. I’m also finding that various enemies I can’t get second winds from. As much as I love the setting of this DLC I’m not loving the mechanics too much or maybe it’s just because my first experience with it is in UVHM.

p.s. How does an orc “level up”? Is this something I messed up or is it inevitable?

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can’t remember if it needs to kill other orcs or it levels after a period of time.

enjoy the story, it is a good one.

Honestly, if there is a method to keep those from leveling up, I haven’t found it yet. You didn’t mess up.

There are Warlord Turge in the Mines Of Avarice and Warlord Grug in the Forest Orc Camp. Both are boss enemies that have a specified and unchanging spawn point.

The only things to do are either hit them with all one has (phaselock, slag, DoT grenades, rockets, whatever is in the arsenal) as soon as one notices them while doing one’s best to stay out of melee range and looking out for their jump attacks or:

Running is an option is this case, since killing them is in no way necessary for the story to go ahead.


There’s a few strategies for the one in the mines:

  • kiting him around the pit in the main area and blasting aware like crazy
  • kite him towards the tracks and go left (facing the cliff edge) - there’s a mine cart at the end of the track you can trigger to run down and hit him
  • kite him back along the bridge towards the spawn point, drop down on to the ledge there, and shoot. If you’re in the right spot he can’t hurt you

The one in the forest is great if you can get him stuck on a fence. They both level up like goliaths by killing another orc, but I’m not sure if they have a cap - they can get quite seriously over-levelled.


They have a cap. They start out as Warlord Grug/Turge and can level up 5 times. After the fifth time the name changes to Duke of Orc and they keep that level. Problem is, they’re hellishly strong by then.

By the way, they level up themselves and the orcs around them, too.