Question regarding fire rate

Borderlands 2 Gameplay Discussion (Spoilers!)
#1

Hi everyone. I have a question. I found a topic on the Gearbox Forums in which user BlackHeartV states that the only possible fire rates in Borderlands 2 (Handsome Collection version) are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 and 60.

I tested this and well… my Slagga (8.8 fire rate on the card) has a magazine size of 236 (thanks to the True Neutral mod) and it takes about 29.5 seconds to fire all those bullets. We’re talking about a fire rate of 8 here (badass rank and skills disabled). So I’m a bit confused. It looks like there are more fire rate caps?

Link to the other topic: Fire rate cap ps3 vs ps4

#2

Is it possible that some of the shots are going off in the same frame? (Not referring to the projectiles but to the actual ammo consumption.)

From that post:

[quote]Guns can only be fired once per frame (but there can be multiple shots
at the same time per frame of course) resulting in these caps[/quote]

Alternatively, are you running anything in your build that would boost fire rate part-way through emptying the magazine? Never mind- just saw that bit about BAR and skills off

#3

I wasn’t using a Shadow of the Seraphs. And I’m playing as Gaige so no Tw0 Fang.

#4

I’ve been thinking about this, and I’m wondering if it’s something to do with vsync on the PS4? As I understand it, that could potentially give you a variable frame rate while you empty the gun. What are you shooting at when you test this? (Elemental effects are one of the common culprits for frame rate drop on the older consoles.)

#5

I’m playing on Xbox One by the way. I was shooting at the ground in Sanctuary.

Also, I just did some more testing.

My non elemental Severe Renegade assault rifle (9.7 fire rate on the card) has a magazine size of 60 (again thanks to the True Neutral mod) and it takes about 7 seconds to fire those bullets. That’s a fire rate of 8.5. Which is nowhere near a fire rate of 6 / 10 seconds. And I disabled everything.

#6

I’m pretty sure the calculations in the post you linked were theoretical ones assuming a fixed frame rate of 30 or 60 fps. However, it seems from a lot of posts here since the Handsome Collection launched that the frame rate can and does drop quite a bit lower. That seems a little unlikely in your situation, especially with non-elemental weapons.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe the game tries to honour the card fire rate by occasionally adjusting? Say you had a fire rate of 10/s, and were running at a steady 60 fps. Then you’d expect a shot every 6th frame. To get 9.7, you’d have to increase the number of frames between each shot every so often so that it would average out in the end. If that’s what is going on, it may be that the algorithm is just not that precise unless you average over a LOT of bullets. I don’t know - that’s the best I can come up with anyway. Maybe someone else knows more.

#7

You almost have to be a scientist to understand it all lol. I really do hope the game tries to honour the card fire rate. It looks like the game actually does try. That theoretical gap between 6 and 10 is just way too big.

#8

It seems the list of fire rates is incomplete; as I see it the caps are results of the engine letting the gun fire every N frames. For N = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 this results in the fire rates 60/1=60, 60/2=30, 60/3=20, 60/4=15, 60/5=12, 60/6=10. The next number on the list is 6 (=60/10), but what about the fire rates for every 7, 8, or 9 frames? They are not whole numbers (the post you linked lists only the whole numbers which divide 60 evenly), but they should exist: 60/7=8.571, 60/8=7.5, 60/9=6.667.
Your Slagga has a listed fire rate of 8.8, which means it would fire every 7 frames (actual fire rate 8.571). A magazine size of 236 means it will take 7236=1652 frames to empty the magazine, that’s 1652/60=27.567 seconds. If you are sure that it took 2 more seconds to empty the magazine, there must have been something else dropping your fire rate.
Let’s calculate the time with a fire rate of 7.5 (which is every 8 frames on 60 fps, or every 4 frames on 30 fps; the fire rate of 8.57 is impossible on 30 fps because that would be every 3.5 frames, which isn’t a whole number of frames). (2368)/60=31.467 seconds, that’s two seconds off as well, but this time in the other direction. If a fluctuating frame rate was what messed up your results, you must have been at 30 fps for about half the time.

Now for the Renegade, the nearest possible fire rate cap below 9.7 is 8.571 (a shot every 7 frames) as well. The magazine size of 60 makes for a really simple formula: 7 frames per shot times 60 shots, divided by 60 frames per second, or (7*60)/60=7 - perfect! On 30 fps you would get the 7.5 fire rate cap, which would take 8 seconds to empty the magazine. I’ll assume your timing is accurate, so no reduced frame rate here.

Disclaimer: I’ve done the math without a calculator, so some numbers may be off. I’m pretty sure the results are accurate, but when in doubt, double-check them.

#9

Great post! Thanks! So there are indeed more caps. It’s only fair I guess. The difference between a fire rate of 6 and 9.7 is just so big. A fire rate of 8.571 is much more reasonable.

About the Slagga, I guess the fire rate dropped a bit because the gun is elemental? Elemental effects could possibly negatively affect the frame rate, even on Xbox One.