#1

I have played now Borderlands 1, 2 and the Pre-Sequel. But i never had much contact to the community. So i have a question now.

Does the community like action skills which require skill from the player to be used to most efficiently?

What do i mean by that?
For example i would say that the mechromancers roboter from Borderlands 2 does nearly not need any skill by the player. You call the roboter and it will do its job regardless how good the player is. There is nearly no interaction with the roboter.
Similar cases are in my opinion nisha from the pre-sequels, mordecai from borderlands 1, salvador from borderlands 2, etc.

On the other hand the action skill of zero does defenitely benefit from the players skill. For example when you use his melee skilltree.
You do more damage when you get behind enemys. You can use his dash in a lot of different ways. You have to judge witch enemys you can onehit so you remain longer in your action skill.
You have to switch to a weapon with melee bonus in time.
It is not extremly skill requiring but still more than most other carriers.

So far i couldn’t find out what kind of action skills the borderlands communitiy likes more.
On the one hand a lot of people seem to find salvadore boring because of his action skill.
On the other hand many people seem to like nisha who has an aimbot a skill.

Im asking because the action skills of the borderlands 3 characters will heavely depend on what kind of action skills the community likes.

So please let me know your answers.

2 Likes
#2

Short answer is… we like it all !
Well, we’re a small microcosm of society and one great thing about Borderlands is there’s something for pretty much everyone.
Deathtrap may be a “fire and forget” thing but building a good Mechromancer is a whole other thing. That’s what this community like the most I think. Variety and versatility.
The rumor is each characters will have a set (3?) of Action Skill. As we know. Not all Sirens are created equal. If that’s the case then it could base to differentiate them. Some “versions” being more of a fire and forget type while others requiring more “attention”.
Even with the current Borderlands. Play style and builds have a big influence already.
A single turret Double up Commando build is basically a passive skill. You throw it and wait until it end most of the time.
While a Gemini build with Longbow and Mag-Lock is more active. First turret placement, when and where you place the second one. Allow for a far throw on the first one and a quick cooldown reset with the second one…
Even Deathtrap. On my mechro I have almost no point at all in it. I use it mostly as a “aggro distraction” and whatever he deal is just gravy. (Lots of gravy! :slight_smile: ) While other builds will rely a lot on its damage.

As you mentioned some are more “rewarding” and Zero is a good example. But there’s only so many ways to reward critical hits.
As I said. I (we) want it all.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

4 Likes
#3

Sounds good. I really like action skills where i can improve how i use them, which need my attention and reward it if i master them. So if every character gets three skills i think it is more likely to get some skills i like.
I understand if people don’t like these kind of action skills. So by making more it might be easier to please everyone.

1 Like
#4

:wave:

I happily play each character from all three games…except Nisha. Aimbot is truly terrible. When I do play Nisha, it’s without AS.

Why would I otherwise want all characters to play the same way? That’s what keeps me in this franchise almost exclusively : that each character (and each individual build within that character) makes the game different. I currently have 21 of them in BL2 - and they’re all (mostly) unique.

1 Like
#5

I enjoy having an active role in the action skill, but I also don’t consider the turret or Deathtrap as totally passive. Though they can certainly be thrown and forgotten, I prefer to work with them as a support class when I can. The turret less so (it’s more when I throw it into a mob and following the laser to stay on top of slagging enemies under its fire. Deathtrap? Total co op.

2 Likes
#6

Should we call Buzz Axe Rampage and Gunzerking passive aggressive skills? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

2 Likes
#7

Another thing to consider is that Action Skills are augmented by certain skills on the tree. Many of the Override skills completely change how they function. Deathblossom & Deathmark along with Execute & Many Must Fall create a play style and game loop that’s unique, but any character can be played with an equal level of skill relative to their Action Skill. The use of powerful/ forgiving gear and exploitable skills is what makes for less skilled play styles.

There are people with reflexes, timing, and focus to play Salvador with two Jakob’s Pistols and cruise through maps smoothly, side stepping enemy fire and timing Money Shots & Come At Me Bro’s to the point that it all looks choreographed. The ambition of the player is key.

1 Like
#8

That’s a very good question with no real answer. It is indeed the variety that keeps these games ticking. I just recently tried new builds on bl1…a Roland build based on using the turret, an Aries revolver, and grenades. It’s a hoot. And another on Lilith based on the nemesis repeater and a tormentor com. One gun builds, heavily dependent on the action skill. And this game is a decade old.

1 Like
#9

If I’m reading this right, does the community prefer easy-to-‘master’ skills that even a rookie can use like a pro, or skills that take time to learn? I guess the short answer from me might be that if it’s too easy, it becomes boring; too complex, and it may be quite discouraging.

A few things I liked and didn’t like:

  • AXTON: Area saturation, ability cancellation; [Maglock + Gemini]*
  • GAIGE: Deathtrap, ricochet gunfire (optional); Deathtrap autonomy, stacks
  • KRIEG: Bloodsplosion; melee skills**, stacks
  • MAYA: Lots of direct interaction with targets and allies.
  • SALVADOR: ammo regeneration, tanking; reloading
  • ZERO: stealth; melee skills**, stacks

[ * ] subjective, but I felt it too easy, so I tended to not invest in Gemini. Also, I sometimes forgot I even had a second one.
[ ** ] subjective, but I probably didn’t like to melee since there was no button-mapping and I didn’t like hitting R3.

I probably might need to play again…

#10

So to conclude.
Because the skilltrees themself and the big variety of builds already provide a lot possibilitys for different and unique playstyles, it is not a problem if some action skills are a bit “boring”. Also an easy to use action skill is quite enjoyable from time to time. That sounds fair. Thank you all for your answers!

I’m still a bit worried that the AS of the new Beastmaster will be like the ones of Mordecai or gaige, but maybe the 3 AS instead of only one will do the job. Also i would really be happy if i could enjoy the berserker class the first time. In the end im sure at least one or two character will suit me!

1 Like
#11

From what has been leaked, it sounds like you only pick one of three options. People keep saying there are three actions skills for varying characters, but it sounds more like there are three unique variations of the action skill for characters that you choose, kind of like Capstones, but if available at the start of a tree, more cornerstones.

Also, action skill viability and ease change based on what level you are and which playthrough.

At level my first time in UVHM, on PC at least, the Turret was the most difficult action skill for me. Enemies destroyed it near immediately when I ran a Gemini build without double up or mag-lock. When I switched to Double up without mag-lock & gemini I struggled too. I had to properly gear up Axton via the Golden chest.

1 Like
#12

I’ll be mean and say: Buy a console! :laughing:
https://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/character-based-damage-scaling-with-op-level/1870791/23

Imagine it to be like Thoughtlock or Sub Sequence. Both would alter significantly your interaction with the As. Sub Sequence turning making it more “passive” in a way.

1 Like
#13

Well when i think of a fun beastmaster i imagine the following:

Lets say you can switch between three diffenrent creatures. When you activate your action skill the currently selected creature will appear. Depending on the Situation one creature might be more helpfull then the other, so this woulds already spice up the AS.
For example lets say you could choose between a Skag, a Tresher and a spiderant.
Each of the three skilltrees would mainly concentrate on one of the three creatures while also of course boosting a little bit the vault hunter in different ways.

The Skag:
His basic function would be to attack and disable the enemy that the player is commanding him by biting onto this enemy, which of course would draw this enemys whole attention to the skag. At the start the Skag wouldn’t deal a lot of damage but would already be quite tanky. If the Player doesn’t select an enemy to attack, the skag will stay close to the player and only attack enemys that come to close. The Player can switch the target for the skag at any time.
If you put skillpoints into the skag tree, following things will change.

  • The skag will be able to eat and destroy grenades that get thrown at the player if he is close to the player.
    (Like a dog that is running for a stick that gets thrown. Could offer some funny voice line like “Damn Fluffy you are not supposed to catch that!”).
  • Enemys that get disabled by the skag will take increased damage by the player’s.
  • You can give the skag elemental effects that will effect the disabled target.
  • You can make him deal a bit more damage.
  • At max level every enemy killed by the skag will make the skag stronger and stay longer.

To conclude the Skag’s main advantage over the other creatures would be to disable single powerful enemys.

The Spiderant:
The Spiderant would mainly act like an vehicle. When you call it in you will automatically mount it.
It provides very good cover and would nearly take no damage from frontal attacks but quite a lot from attacks that come from the side and you are relatively slow while riding on it. The player would have to watch out for flanking enemys.
If you put skillpoints into the Spiderant tree, following things will change.

  • It will get faster.
  • It will be able to perform melee attacks on enemys that come to close whitch deal damage, push them back and stun them for a short amount of time.
  • It will learn to shot webs which slow the enemys down. The player can choose the target.
  • Enemys that got hit by a web will also take increased damage.
  • At max level it will learn a charge attack which will make it ram into the current direction and deal great damage to every enemy it hits.

This creature would be great for snipers cause of its ability to slow enemys and make them take incresed damage but also because it will protect you from incoming melee enemys. Additionally it would be good for reviwing allies.

The Tresher:
The Tresher will show up at the position where the player is pointing to when he is activating his AS.
To make targeting the position easier, a marker could show the current pointing position while the player is pressing his AS button. Once it showed up it will simply attack nearby enemys. The player can make him switch position every 5 seconds.
If you put skillpoints into the Trasher tree, following things will change.

  • The Tresher will make a spike attack every time he showes up or changes position which deals damage to all nearby enemys.
  • He will be able to perform a special ranged attack where he throws a lot of little stuff at the selected enemy. Because of the big spread of this attack it will easely hit several enemy if they stand close by. The attacks deal a bit damage but the main effenct is that all enemys in the area of attack will suffer from aim punch. This attack is good for suppresing a group of enemys.
  • If you call the trasher under your own feet it will throw you in the air when it appears which might give you the ability for some fun plays.
  • The Trasher gains the ability to pull enemys towards him once.

The Trasher would need the least attention of the player.

Of course my whole design proposal is way to complicated. But i would already be happy if the beast master would only have at least one creature with a similar level of complexity and interaction as any of the beasts i did propose. I wouldn’t mind if only one of the three skill trees would offer this and the other two turn the beast into a fire and forget. I would just be really happy if there is one option for me^^

1 Like
#14

If the spiderant isnt the spiderpants, then this game is clearly a failure.

3 Likes
#15

Maya is definitely a good point of reference, as is Zer0 when you consider how his Override Skills turn Deception into a skill that provides damage output instead of just being a set up to using your existing weapons & melee.

1 Like
#16

Hola! Look like I didn’t “second read” that one. :scream:

1 Like