Questions about specific Moze skills

So I’m having a lot of trouble figuring out my build for Moze. I know it will probably be impossible to know what my final build will look like until I get my hands on the game and I can see all of the class mods, shields, etc. but I’d like to have a good idea of where I’m working towards going into the game. I’m going to be playing co-op with one other friend who will likely be playing as Amara.

Skills that I know I want:

Shield of Retribution

Selfless Vengeance 5/5 - Anything that helps my teammate is a must have for me. Giving them incendiary damage is great and losing health will synergize with the rest of my build thanks to the skill Desperate Measures.

Drowning in Brass 5/5 - Again, anything that helps my teammate is a must. Constantly giving them a huge buff to gun damage as I’m killing enemies sounds fantastic. It may become less important if my friend decides to focus on melee as Amara but I feel like it’s still a huge source of damage for Moze as well.

Full Can Of Whoop-Ass 1/1 - I’m probably going to be using Iron Bear as an “Oh s***!” button and this helps my teammate with survival as well.

Phalanx Doctrine 5/5 - I mean, this is just a crazy amount of damage to leave on the table. One thing I’m not sure about is the additional max shields. Does this immediately give me more shields or does it simply increase my pool of shields and it will only come into effect if my shields recharge fast enough? Either way I feel like the damage alone is too good to pass up.

Desperate Measures 3/3 - Another massive damage buff that will synergize with Selfless Vengeance and Thin Red Line. But more on that in a bit…

Force Feedback 1/1 - I don’t see any reason to avoid this skill if I’m going to be relying on shields with this build.

Tenacious Defense 1/1 - Same deal here. Seems like a no brainer given the rest of the build.

Bottomless Mags

Cloud Of Lead 5/5 - I like the idea of doing bonus incendiary damage and giving my guns more sustainability. I feel like this skill along with Selfless Vengeance sort of pushes me towards focusing on incendiary damage which I don’t mind but it does inform some of my decisions later on. I don’t like the other option here, Matched Set, because I don’t want to limit the guns and gear that I can use based on the manufacturer.

Redistribution 1/1 - Just seems like a nice skill to have to add even more sustainability to my guns. I’m planning on using assault rifles so it should be beneficial along with Cloud Of Lead even if I’m not fully investing in the Bottomless Mags tree.

Stroke the Embers 3/3 - Since I’m going with Selfless Vengeance and Cloud Of Lead, I feel like I may as well go all in on incendiary damage. This might be a mistake though… I’m not sure if this bonus damage is necessary.

Rushin’ Offense 1/1 - The main reason I’m in this skill tree. I love the mobility that this skill gives me.

Now onto the hard stuff… here are the skills that I’m debating right now:

Shield of Retribution

Security Bear 1/1 - I like the idea of using Iron Bear as a mobile shield for my partner. I’m not sure if this extra shield is necessary for that purpose but if it guarantees that I’ll be blocking all of the shots going my friend’s way then I think I’d like to take this skill.

Experimental Munitions 1/1 - Again, since I’ve gone this far with incendiary damage I feel like I may as well go all the way and this is only one skill point investment.

Thin Red Line ?/3 - I know that I want this skill in order to synergize with Desperate Measures but I don’t know if investing all three points is the best idea considering that I will also be losing health thanks to Selfless Vengeance. I’m also unclear where the threshold is for the max damage increase you can get from Desperate Measures.

Armored Infantry/Vladof Ingenuity ?/5 - I’m torn between these two skills. With this build I could have a practually permanent 15% damage boost with armored infantry as well as the 13% damage reduction (from all sources I’m assuming?). Is that more valuable than increasing my max shields and reducing shock damage considering how important my shields are to this build? Is this a glass cannon vs. tank scenario or will Vladof Ingenuity become less important as I obtain higher end shields?

Bottomless Mags

Scrappy ?/5 - I need at least one more point in the Bottomless Mags skill tree in order to get Rushin’ Offense. I really like all of the benefits of scrappy but I’m not sure if this is the best place to use my few remaining points.

Dakka Bear 1/1 - This is an alternative to Scrappy for that one extra point and I like the idea of giving my teammate something to do when I call out Iron Bear but… how powerful is this turret going to be. Will Security Bear keep my friend shielded when they are on Iron Bear’s shoulder?

Demolition Woman

Deadlines 3/3 - Obviously I’m not focusing on Iron Bear too much with this build but I feel like three points into this skill is a really good investment. Just to be able to keep Iron Bear out a bit longer when I do need him. Since I’m probably going all in on incendiary, I will likely be using the fire-based railgun and the flamethrower and this skill will help mitigate the fuel drain from those skills.

Grizzled ?/5 - This is coming down to the wire when it comes to available skill points but I know Iron Bear has a long cooldown. Would three points be worth it in this skill? One point? I don’t know if I can spare all five points and I don’t know if I’ll be using Iron Bear enough to justify any in the first place.

So THIS is the build that I’m looking at right now. I feel like I’m probably overestimating or underestimating a lot of skills though. Do I sound way off the mark on any of these skills? I’m really interested in everyone’s thoughts on Armored Infantry vs. Vladof Ingenuity in particular. And whether or not it’s worth investing in all of that incendiary damage.

  1. Bonus damage is more important that regular gun increases becuase elemental are damage multipliers and regular gun damage have diminishing returns. Plus the vast majority of enemies will have red health bars. My Moze build has every single bonus incidiary damage skill she can get her hands on.

  2. Vladof Ingenuity is a must IMO becuase of the shock damage resistence. Shock will do extra damage against your shields and I have a feeling mayhem enemies will be doing some nasty elemental damage against you.

  3. I think amored infantry is a better skill early game and VI takes over endgamr.

Not telling you how to play…how I’m playing Moze is pretending Iron Bear doesnt exist.

I’d guess Phalanx Doctrine instantly increases your shield.

Would get rid of Deadlines & get Vladof Ingenuity.
You rely on your shield and getting shock resist + capacity is quite strong with a shield build

I am planning a build for every 5 -10 skill points as every planet, mission, side quest, raids & bosses will be different. & resetting skill points often as this game will not be meant for only 1 build. As Moze is the gunner and she is proficient with each weapon manufacturer/type you might want to start by making a build around the weapons you carry.& possibly experimenting with Iron bear as it is just another gun.

How does the 13% damage reduction factor into it for you? Unless I’m misinterpreting the skill, that’s a flat damage reduction from every source of damage right?

You make a compelling argument for Vladof Ingenuity. Maybe I will just completely ignore Deadlines and the Iron Bear skills in Demolition Woman.

What about Behind the Iron Curtain? I’ve been ignoring it because I don’t feel like the bonuses are very impressive. If Phalanx Doctrine is actually giving you shields as you kill enemies then it becomes even more unappealing to me. But if Phalanx is NOT giving you shields and it’s simply increasing your max shield pool then I suppose shield regen and recharge rate become more valuable. But if you’re taking fire will it really make much of a difference since the regen won’t start anyway? I can just stay in cover for as long as I need to regen my shields. And in that case the three points would be better spent elsewhere as long as I have a little extra patience.

I can confirm after analyzing some gameplay footage that Phalanx doctrine does heal your shield as you get kills, but it’s not instant, it’s based on your shield regen speed.