Questions about Tannis and Sirens

First do we need spoiler tags if this sub forum allows for spoilers?

I have finally finished my first play through of the game and I had a blast. And for the most part I enjoyed the story. But I am confused about the Tannis reveal. I did not like the fact that she is a siren and than she has been able to hide the fact that she is one. No other siren is able to hide their tattoos. Some of my questions (because maybe I missed something about the reveal). How long has she been a Siren? It seems to me that she has the same powers as Angel. Did Angel somehow bequeath her powers to Tannis when she died, much like Maya did with Ava? The origin of siren is still as confusing as ever. Ava shows that they are not necessarily born that way. Yet Troy and Tyreen seem to indicate that they can be born that way. I am guess that being born a siren Tyreen somehow messed with Troy to cause him to be a siren. Back to Tannis. Does anyone have a timeline of Sirens? Where does she fit in this timeline? Are there siren powers that migrate from one to the other? Ie Phaseshifting Angel -> Tannis. Phaselocking Maya -> Ava.

I am hoping someone has made sense of all this as it is a pretty big point for Borderlands and how sirens fit in the picture.

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I didn’t like the reveal either, but when Angel died, her powers were shifted to Tannis, same with how Ava got Maya’s powers after Troy died. What I’m curious about is who’s going to get Tyreen’s and Lilith’s powers? Plus we have no idea what Commandant Steel’s powers were either.

Troy and Tyreen were born conjoined twins, hence the comment the latter makes about the former needing to be cut off of her. While sirens are generally female, that closeness of the twins is probably why Troy received the power to leach power from any siren - that may be what Steel’s power was.

Ultimately the issue here is that all 3 games (BL 1, 2, and 3) had a different head writer who each brought their own vision to the table, which is why there’s a lot of inconsistency between them. BL 1 was an experiment by a small studio that basically threw stuff at a wall and saw what stuck; BL 2 was the result of bringing on a new writer due to the success of the previous game; and 3 was seeing said writer leave shortly after 2 shipped and being written some 7 years or so later. You can see the same thing happening with Star Wars: The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi - the former set a particular tone and story while the later changed it due to two different directors bringing their own vision to the series. Ultimately I wouldn’t delve too deeply into it because there are plenty of inconsistency issue.

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Did I somewhere miss the explanation where it is explained that Tannis got her abilities after the death of Angel?

I get your point about continuity but it is not that difficult to ensure that things logically flow even if there story goes in a new direction.

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Tannis mentioned she got her powers from a “Guardian Angel”.

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Angel gave her powers to Tannis.

Leda or whatever Typhon’s wife was named, gave her power to her daughter, Tyreen when she died in childbirth, however, since Troy was conjoined he also got some of the drain powers (that worked on Sirens.)

So the 6 sirens in the universe goes like this

  1. Lillith —> (?)
  2. Maya —> Ava
  3. Leda ----> Tyreen ----> Unknown
  4. Amara
  5. Steele ----> Unknown
  6. Angel ----> Tannis

However, I have seen it mentioned that when Steele died her powers were randomly transported to Amara. Either way, there is still currently at least one siren unaccounted for depending on the fate of Lillith as of the end of the BL3 main storyline.

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So it is possible that there is one unkown Siren and the mystery of where Lilith’s powers will end up.

Well, actually 2 unknown sirens now + Lillith or 3 unknown sirens

Forgot to account for Tyreen’s powers going to a random denizen of the universe.

I’m not a fan of the direction that BL3 took with sirens. Being a siren now seems to be simply possessing the power rather than being an intrinsic part of one’s self. But c’est la vie.

At the start of Borderlands 1 (assuming no weird transfer of powers between individuals and whatnot), the six sirens were:

  1. Lilith
  2. Maya
  3. Commandant Steele
  4. Amara
  5. Tyreen
  6. Angel

I have never heard of Steele’s powers being transferred to Amara. If there’s an ECHO of it, I’d love to hear it, but I doubt that the writers for BL3 would even remember Commandant Steele from the first game.

As for the transfer of siren powers (as well as “siren-ness”), one of the Eridian writings in BL3 mentioned that such a transfer can be made voluntarily upon death, or else the siren powers would randomly attach themselves to someone. There are no real details on how this is done, apart from what is seen in the cutscenes.

Tannis most likely inherited her siren powers from Angel, after Angel died. Tannis has remarked that she is unsure of how it happened. So it is both possible that Angel intentionally passed on her powers to Tannis or that Tannis hit the cosmic jackpot in acquiring her powers.

I want to make a note on Leda, mother of Tyreen and Troy. Though she is presented as being very knowledgeable in Eridian lore, it is never explicitly expressed that she was a siren. If she were, Typhon DeLeon probably would have made a mention of it somewhere among his ECHOs. However, this is not the case. He does mention his trist with Queen Dido, and that she was also a siren. So it would seem weird that he never makes a similar comment about Leda.

Another note to consider is what Troy said about their mother dying, and that is was all “on her [Tyreen].” The implication is that Tyreen may have leeched her mother, though it’s still not clear whether it was intentional or not.

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I’m pretty sure that he did mention it. That’s how she knew about Nekrodefayo.

Also no, the Steele --> Amara thing was a fan theory

I did forget about the Dido thing though, I would assume if I am wrong on the Leda thing, that she passed her power on to Tyreen somehow (would be comical if she passed that “curse” on to Tyreen as punishment for Typon leaving her for Leda) otherwise she would have been the original owner of Amara’s (since I am assuming Amara is younger than Lillith and Maya).

Btw guys there is a 7th siren somewhere.
I have this information from one of the eridan writings.
Its says something like the 7th should been never to be seeked / found.
It seems like the 7th is the most dangerous of all sirens.

My biggest problem is we were always lead to believe it was being at birth. So Angel got her powers at random when the last phastshifting siren died I guess. Also it been stated multiple times there can only be 6 sirens at once not that 6 sirens were needed at all times. Also as guy above said there is a 7th siren now.

So not only do we only know 5/6 of main sirens (6 if we count Steele) but there is basically an Alpha 7th siren. I dont know what the writers are thinking changing all the established lore around but based on the main story we got it’s not going good. Especially since they keep killing off the cast.

So far its
Lilith - Teleport/Phasewalking/Fire
Maya - Phaselock
Amara - Like a Phase… fighting?
Angel - Phaseshift/Control
Tyreen - Leech
Steele - ??? (unknown)

It has not been confirmed that there is a 7th siren. The Eridian writing only mentions “the Seventh.” This “Seventh” could mean anything, a seventh Vault, a seventh Proving Ground, a seventh side of a cube (?). I would hesitate before declaring that there is a seventh siren.

I would like to give the writing team some credit that they did not forget that piece of lore.

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Didn’t Jack definitively state in an Echo during the assassins side quest in BL2 that there are always seven sirens?

Six, not seven.

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Fair enough. I can never wholly trust the ol’ brain pudding. :wink:

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There are 7 sirens. It even said in one of the writings to not go looking for the 7th.
Also that 7th siren is tyreen it’s the leeche power it was sealed away in the vault typhon opened and that’s how it came back into circulation.

Leda is not a siren.

We have.

  1. Lilith
  2. Angel/tannis
  3. Maya/Ava
  4. Amara
  5. Steele
  6. Asha/Dido
  7. Tyreen

Unatural sirens.

  1. Troy

Tannis got her powers from angel. She talks about getting them from a guardian angel. A bandit mentions seeing a angel. And her connection to angels belongings. So yah she got her powers sometime after BL2.

Timeline of sirens go. And I’ll go with sirens alive during the events of. Ages could range from preteens to potentially like 40+.

BL1- Lilith, Maya, angel, tyreen, amara, Steele(dies), unknown potentially Dido or asha. I don’t know anything about Dido this is the first I’ve heard of her so idk if she is around or died back during typhons time.

B2- Lilith, Maya, angel(dies), tyreen, amara, unknown(steele), again dido or Asha.

B3- Lilith(“dies”), tannis(angel), ava(maya), tyreen(dies), amara, unknown(steele), and again potentially Dido or asha.

Powers floating around after 3.
Lilith, tyreen, steele, dido/asha

No, there are not. The “six sirens” rule was established when Handsome Jack made mention of it in an ECHO in the BL2 mission “Assassinate the Assassins.” At that time, Jack had already acquired knowledge of the Vaults and the Eridians when he entered the Vault in Elpis.

The Edirian writing that people want to quote so quickly is NOT explicit in saying what this “Seventh” actually is. Please stop saying that it did.

Now, if you want throw up theories that this “Seventh” is a siren, then by all means, do so, but don’t state it as fact, when it is only a theory.

As for why I do not think the “Seventh” is a siren comes from actual dialogue from a credible source within the game. Additionally, from a behind-the-scenes perspective, I also do not think the “Seventh” is a siren because the “six sirens” rule is a well-documented and acknowledged piece of lore that even BL3’s writing team probably wouldn’t have forgotten it. I theorize that this “Seventh” is just a pump fake by the writing team to get people psyched up over a “seventh siren” when it really isn’t.

If you want to theorize that the “Seventh” does indeed refer to a siren, then you also need to accept two premises:

  1. What Handsome Jack said is false (which would then need to be explained why he lied, or was mistakened, given that he had Elpis’ Vault knowledge at that time).
  2. BL3’s writing totally screwed up by missing or ignoring the “six sirens” rule. The only other alternative is that the writing team went J.J. Abrams on that ■■■■ and decided to ■■■■ it all.

Asha/Dido was dead and long gone by the beginning of BL1. Instead, Maya would have still been training on Athenas during that time until the start of BL2.

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Asha is from the comics which at one point were cannon not anymore but idk why they were then weren’t. And yah Asha was not dead by time BL1 was about in fact she helped find one of the vault pieces, to be exact the rakk hive piece.

Now on to nyriad who is a siren, who talks about bringing ruin to the sirens and killing the eridians. Sealing a primordial force. Talks about locking herself away thousands of years ago to keep the leeche power from spreading to a new female. She warns to never find the 7th. So 7th is missing to never come in contact with other sirens for thousands of years, nyriad powers have been sealed for just as long.

Now let me explain jack. Jack never once saw the past. He only saw the future up to before he is defeated. That’s why he knew about the warrior. Jack thought the warrior was the biggest threat on Pandora, so you his info is not great. How he knows of the six as they have probably been documented and the help of angel. Since the only document of the 7th is nyriad and no one until 3 besides typhons wife could read them, jack would only know of 6.

Nyriad writings consisted of sseveral main things. The eridians, sirens, vaults, destroyer, and the destroyers opposite.

Only one of those can have 7.
More then 7 vaults
More then 7 eridians
Only one destroyer and creator

It’s pretty obvious if you look at everything as a whOle there has been 7 sirens with one being lost to history like nyriad planned.
You don’t warn about a 7th if it’s not dangerous. Nyriad locked her powers away because they were to dangerous. She brought ruin to the other siren she is the 7th.

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So Asha didn’t exist at the time of BL1 because she’s not canon. Check.

What Jack actually saw was always up for debate back when the Pre-Sequel was released. Some people thought that Jack saw a premonition of things to come, based on the BL2 footage used in his vision. I never bought that explanation because if Jack could see the future, then he would have also seen how not to be defeated in the first place. Other people, myself included, theorized that Jack’s vision was a visual representation of knowledge of the Vaults and the Eridians, including the Warrior. This knowledge also included detailed information about the sirens, the Vault key, and possible permutations of Eridian technology.

You can’t cite information that hasn’t been made apparent. No source has ever mentioned the number of sirens in the universe other than Jack himself. How he came to learn that could still be up to debate, but it certainly did not come from documented sightings. Even if there were six sirens documented at one time, there is nothing that would necessitate that they number only at six. The above explanation also is under the presumption that teh Seventh is a siren, which doesn’t lend itself to non-circular logic.

I never heard of any opposite of the Destroyer. And I just listened to all of the writings right now. Nope, nothing.

Uh, nope. Again, that is assuming that there is a hard number associated with any of the things that Nyriad mentioned. She only mentions a “Seventh” and that has seemingly been left vague for a purportedly stupid reason. If she really wanted to leave a clear cut warning, she would have said, “Don’t find me.”

No, it’s not obvious. It’s only “obvious” because people attribute the “seventh” to something that was already counted before.

Right now, to assume that the “Seventh” refers to a seventh siren means to totally retcon and invalidate the game lore that has already been established. I will admit that the writing of BL3 isn’t the best, but I’m hoping that the writing team has tried to be consistent as possible. If you still want to assume that the “Seventh” refers to a siren, then yuo would also need to recognize that the writings is crap and piecemeal.

Yah asha was once cannon but is not anymore for reasons only gearbox knows.

Jack saw the future this is not for debate. He did not see himself lose because Lilith stopped him from seeing that far when she phased his face, this was shown quite clearly. The last thing he saw was him opening the vault.

Yah I can site it as we know what jack saw. If he saw 6 sirens he would know who they are and what there powers are but he does not. All he knows is angel, Lilith,and Maya, probably steele as well, he has no clue who the others are or there powers. Hence him saying he knows of 3 I believe he says but it should be 4. We know from nyriad that the sirens by law of “universe” are drawn together. Considering leeche has been locked away for thousands of years with no one knowing about it. Then yah it’s safe to assume that jack only knows about 6 because they have been documented at one point.

Well you obviously missed one or need to go listen again. It’s oneof the things besides the 7th being talked about.

My God it’s been said there is only 1 destroyer and atm 1 fake. Vaults number in the hundreds, eridians are much more then 7 as well when around. The only thing we have is 6 sirens and a 7th which has tone relate to one of nyriad main topics. And it’s easy to narrow it down.
And why would she say don’t find me. She going to die in the vault, there is no finding her, there is only finding the 7th power. Hence don’t get looking for the 7th.

No it is obvious, easy to narrow down, you just don’t want to let go of Jack saying 6 when was wrong about about the warrior being stronger then destroyer. She is doubt his siren knowledge is completely factual consider again know one would have knowledge of Nyriad and her power.

There is no retcons going on her, just a man and galaxies of peoples knowledge not knowing of a siren power that was locked away thousands of years ago with anyone with even a hint of knowledge on it died long ago.

The story is awful and it has hole but this is not one of them. You only try to make it one. I’ll use a example. Look at the crystal skulls. There are 13 of them all with the same kind of markings and such which can’t be replicated as they are a product of time. If a 14 is found to exist that does not mean it’s a retcon of life it’s just been unknown until it’s discovery. Same thing with extinction events. It beloved that they have found evidence of a new extinction event. That does not mean it’s retcon of life it’s simply a new discovery.

To say that something like that can’t happen or does not happen in fiction is just ignorant. They’ve added to siren mythology by adding a 7th. This does not cause any problems because this siren has been unknown for centuries and only came back into circulation when typhon opened the vault.
Nothing nyriad ever mentions that’s important could be related to the 7th then sirens.
1 destroyer, race of people, and hundreds of vaults.
Sirens are the only thing capable of fitting that bill.

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