Rath Fix: Silence OR Knockup

Rath should have to choose between between silence or knockup on Cataclysmic Smash. Having both on the same skill is what makes Rath OPed.

Just played on a game on a bad team where a Rath went 23-8. Yeah, it was a bad team but to avoid getting killed by Rath you have to have precognition because you have to guess when he’s going to silence and knock you up and if you guess wrong, you’re just dead. If you if you do guess right and press your skill before Rath, most the time your skill gets canceled and doesn’t even go through.

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#GitGud

This has becoming a really major topic lately. I do agree, his kit is geared too much towards his ultimate. I think the silence should be removed since most peoples abilities actually help them get out of his ultimate. I am also for a increase to his cool down for his ult, 60 is too short and should be at least 80.

I find such ‘advice’ to be a lot less useful that you might think. I mean, I could just type, in bold, lrn2forum, but that wouldn’t actually help you improve, would it? If you’re going to bother posting, a little more actual content in terms of strategy or tactics would be appreciated. Thanks.

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I played at the highest level in the game that coined “git gud”. We don’t take kindly to N3s

So the mod doesn’t have to, id like to remind everyone that one should talk about the game, not other people :slight_smile:

I think Rath needs a buff to everything but Dreadwind, and a nerf to Dreadwind. If Dreadwind just hurt really bad and didn’t kill you, people wouldn’t be so upset about the Knockup into Silence.

Increase Rath health a bit. (By like 5%)

Increase the period of time his level 1 mutation stuns if it hits (I prefer this to his Knockup anyway but if buffed, more people would use it.) (Maybe 1 second increase)

Increase the range of his off hand slightly. (Maybe 10% more distance)

Increase the damage on crossblade OR the size of crossblade. (10% more damage or 15-20% larger size)

Decrease damage on Dreadwind. (30-40%)

Thoughts on these changes are welcome :slight_smile:

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I am okay with this. [quote=“matthewmerrill12, post:6, topic:1508823”]
Increase the period of time his level 1 mutation stuns if it hits (I prefer this to his Knockup anyway but if buffed, more people would use it.) (Maybe 1 second increase)
[/quote]

No, absolutely not. As it stands the silence should be removed and ALL his cool downs should be increased. [quote=“matthewmerrill12, post:6, topic:1508823”]
Increase the range of his off hand slightly. (Maybe 10% more distance)
[/quote]

That would make him too strong. Don’t know why you think he needs a range buff since his range is good for a melee character already. [quote=“matthewmerrill12, post:6, topic:1508823”]
Increase the damage on crossblade OR the size of crossblade. (10% more damage or 15-20% larger size)
[/quote]

As long as the cool downs are increased then yes I can agree with this. [quote=“matthewmerrill12, post:6, topic:1508823”]
Decrease damage on Dreadwind. (30-40%)
[/quote]

No, as much as I hate his special, the damage isn’t the problem, his kit is. They are geared too much towards dreadwind hence why I said silence should be removed and also the annoying juggling in the air that dreadwind does.

Easy killers. It was just some sarcasm. I see it didn’t translate well, my apologies.

You’re right that stun silence is a little OP but only because it’s a single move. Galilea can stun silence but it takes both her cooldowns and some precision.

Good strategies: Keep the characters that are good at spacing laned against him. Pay extra attention to the map or communicate where he is if your able to speak with your team. Glance at the game timer or a cooldown timer as reference when he ults so you know whether is safe to engage or not.

Again sorry for earlier I was just giving you a hard time.

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I apologize beforehand and no disrespect but I take your post @Phoenixmgs with a grain of salt. I say this because you mentioned that you had a bad team. So if Rath had been any other character and went 23-8 you may have made a similar post about that character. I think it was just a bad experience. Im assuming you were playing with randoms and if they had been better then it would’ve been easier for yall to shut Rath down.

While I do agree with giving him a higher cooldown on Dreadwind, especially when Benedict’s is so long in terms of ult cooldowns, I do not think his silence and knock up is a huge threat and just like Galilea’s pull stun silence combo, it’s just that, a combo move. You have to hit a player with crossblade first, then catalytic smash for it to silence.

A higher ultimate cooldown and .5-1 second off how long dreadwind lasts would balance him just fine. He doesn’t need a health boost because his life steal is awesome nor do I believe he needs anymore buffs or nerfs.

I know when I have bad random matchups I have a harder time shutting characters down. Having a team focused on teamwork and knows their characters well makes a huuuuge difference. Even if you lose with a good team it feels like you were pushing hard and did great regardless of the loss. It sucks getting stuck with people that aren’t familiar with characters or the maps and modes. But they will learn and it just gives me more practice so no loss.

When you have an awesome team, it’s so cool, games are much more fun and balanced. I play with randoms 98% of the time. Once they work out some matchmaking kinks it will hopefully prevent situations like yours and what I’ve mentioned so matches feel more balanced :slight_smile:

Leave Rath as he is.

Is it so hard for people to understand that Rath is one of the easiest characters to counter? All it takes is great awareness to beat Rath. His health is about as low as they come. He is straightforward and predictable. If he gets behind you, you deserve to die. His knockup silence is fine and I understand how devastating it is when he uses his ultimate straight after, but that’s the ONLY thing that makes Rath competitive.

I strongly recommend people stop trying to take on characters like Rath and Galilea 1v1 and start understanding matchups, strengths, and weaknesses. I mean, at what point do we point fingers at ourselves for our own failures? I have seen people complain about BOLDUR and how a whole team couldn’t kill him when he was backed up in a corner. So you are telling me 5 people decided to ignore the objective and not one of them was smart enough to get behind him or jump over him? Take responsibility

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Trading a silence for a knock up is not a fair trade whatsoever. No one would pick a silence over a knock up. If you asked for a silence+slow vs a knock up then it might be an actual choice.

Personally I think Rath is more viable than the one-trick-pony that people say that he is, but I also don’t think that he is as overpowered as posts like these put him out to be.

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My brother plays Rath, and after getting through op8 with me as Maya and him as Krieg, he’d basically played a lil as a slower Rath. So his second game he gets worthy of song. I think a small damage reduction on dreadwind and a rework of his silence knock up is all thats needed. It’s to disorienting when you’re robbed of skills and thrown up in the air when you’re then hit with that much damage. I’ve seen Raths do nothing but die till 5 then get triple kills. On montanas. It just seems odd that he be geared towards dreadwind so much.

It’s been an ongoing theme for the past week or so. All Rath ever does in any game is the same combo. The only character I actually feel I have a chance getting out of the combo alive is with Thorn and her jump & burst propulsion.

Well to be honest, that’s the best way he’s used so that’s what you’ll see more often. Just like Galilea’s pull stun silence combo. They can be used other ways, for instance I use Rath’s larger catalytic smash upgrade instead of silence on the first helix upgrade. Which I find effective for me but the best combo is for sure the crossblade, knock up, silence, and dreadwind finish.

Okay to be serious here how will we all ever get the 25 kills in a single match if when we get close someone just calls for a nerf.

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Just leave Rath the way he was designed to be like,as someone above me said LEARN TO COUNTER him, he is very weak already and doesn’t need anything taken from him to make him weaker!!! When I get countered by just about ANY character,if the person using said character is GUD… Well now my ultimate is spent, and now I must rely on my “ultimate”, running skills…Ha!!! Why you ask??? Because he is weak with low health, and unless I snuck up on this character because I am after all an assassin, and NOT a warrior, than I must hall tail out of the area or I am discovered and thrashed upon by several opponents all at one time, and left once again counting down the moments back at the base until I will revive again to conquer the battlefield. As you can see the inevitable death which occurs quite frequently due to the already weakened condition of my battle design…So please DON’T mess with my stats!!!

Or Rath should be made to play SMART like the other assassins…

His ult needs the nerf not his knock up.
Rath is very strong maybe i am just good with him.
Crossblades does 200 damage hits more than one target. strong skill just seems bad because his rapid melee dps is so good.
Knock up does good damage and can effect more than one target.
No one has a problem with his knock up or silence without his ult so why just they get the nerf?
He still strong with his life steal, short cooldowns, good dps with melee spin and fast sprint speed. If people think he is weak without the op ult i would rather they buff anything else about him rather than getting killed in 3 seconds and cant get away.

But that goes against the core principle of Rath. The way I see it, Rath is like Assassins for Dummies. He’s not very viable in high tiers of play because he’s based on simple mechanics that are easy to understand and don’t provide a lot of wiggle room for more strategic play. These characteristics make him really easy to counter, since you know exactly what he wants to do from the moment he hops into a game, and all it takes to make Rath useless is to not let him do his one combo.

However, these same characteristics make him a good pubstomper; typically, these games are played at a lower skill tier, where teams aren’t as focused and coordinated, and that’s where Rath thrives. If the opposing team doesn’t focus on where Rath is, whether or not he has his ult, etc, then Rath gets to do his combo without much standing in the way. Back in beta when I felt obliged to play Toby because nobody else did, I was really happy when I saw a Rath on the other team because it meant that I could just take my stun helix and make Rath entirely useless 75% of the time with one of my skills.