Rath is getting nerfed right?

I’vee seen it mentioned here before, and I’m sure some people, and a lot of rath players will disagree, but he really needs a nerf.

Rath’s long ranged ability i think personally needs a velocity buff, but his other one, the knock up, is a one hit kill on any dps. That as in, he hits you with it, and before you can move again you’re dead. So in matches of capture he’ll wait at spawn and chase you down, pop you up, and kill you. if you live, your silenced and getting hit by him, you are not going to get away with even a kill, you are just dead. And the z axis on this moves lets him hit characters like benedict, caldarius and mellka who all have great mobility and z axis movement.If it’s 2v2 he can knock up ANYONE that isn’t a tank, and kill them with the help of ANYONE for a kill before they can move.

Along with all of this he’s one of the fastest battleborn (which is fine) and has very high dps. And to add to that, one of his helix upgrades lets him leap across the map to hit you with his knock up.

The only other dps that has a stun is… right, there is none! the closest things are kelvin (who has a stun that takes 21 seconds to recharge, and he cannot immediately attack out of, and cannot deeal much damage with. And it doesn’t last as long (well, about the same amount of time as the knockup). And it can’t silence you) but he isn’t a dps, is slower than a dps, he can’t sprint and melee at the same time, he isn’t a dps. (he’s something inbetween dps and tank)

…And the other option is galilea, but im not getting into galilea.

Also, if you are ANY battleborn, and he knocks you up, hits you a bit, and then dreadwinds you no matter what crazy tankapalooza you are, you are dead. You had no chance to save yourself, you are simply dead.

So say what you will, I’m not saying he need to be hammered down into the ground, but he’s as powerful as any dps with the added bonus of beeing able to kill any dps before they can kill him, and he needs to be evened out.

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Toby has a stun.

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Toby does indeed have a stun but he is considered a defender. He just so happens to be better at damaging than defending current due to his shield not being that strong and an overall squishiness that is countered somewhat my his mobility. Rath is an assassin character and fills the role exceptionally well. The only nerf I really see needing to be done is toning down his ult and possibly his main attack. In my mind DPS characters should be very dependent on cool downs…like Orendi is right now. Rath can burn you down with just his melee attack right now. Tone down his main attack (not by much) and slow down his dread wind (or increase its cool down) but keep his cool down abilities as they are.

Dps classes (in mobas, in any case), are actually restricted least of all by cooldowns, and instead mostly use basic attacks to shred enemies. Orendi would be considered a burst mage, the opposite of dps; she does a lot of damage quickly, but not consistently. The only problem people are having with Rath right now is that they don’t know how to play against him. If you get knocked up, just use your quick melee and book it out of there without looking back. If you’re capable of reaching a thumper turret in time, good job! You’ve pretty much guaranteed your survival and wasted a whole lot of Rath’s time. If you have mobility in your kit, like Cald, then you’re even better off and it’s actually surprisingly hard for Rath to kill you.

Attikus, Galilea, Miko, Ambra, Boldur, Caldarius (has a blind which is close enough), Deande, ISIC, Kelvin, Montana all have stuns and those are just ones I can name off the top of my head.
I will say however that I would very much appreciate a method of nerfing the stun then ult combo. It’s team killing crazy and even Galz can’t do that.

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Sorry I forgot about him, thanks!

You can argue montana, and i guess attikus kind of, but all of those characters other than caldarius and deande are etiher not full dps, not dps, or not as fast dps (guess toby really isn’t either) I am aware lots of battleborn have stuns but the dps category that rath falls under really don’t.

As for caldarius, you can a: use gear that makes you unblindable, b: you can still atk while blinded c: move while blinded d: actually, all blinding does is white out your vision and fadee it back to normal, really doeesn’t phase a lot of players

Now is deande’s stun her ult or a mutation? Either way, i did forget about her, though she has a lower dps so she didn’t come to mind as a dps, she is as fast as rath though, if not faster.

Thanks for agreeing though

IDK, Galz is an attack speed demon and most people seem to use her as a dps character in my experience.
As for Deande I’m referencing her ult (which is essentially only useful as a mass stun at this point) because I haven’t unlocked all her mutations.
…WAIT! What gear makes you “unblindable”? What gear is that?!
Also, you’d be surprised how many characters become completely useless after I blind them. I sure as hell was.
I totally do feel Rath is a cheap tactic master after lvl 5 and I’m not even getting into the Marquis argument because omg…

Am I the only one that tries to hit buttons while knocked up but can’t melee/attack? If I reecall you can only start hitting buttons after you hit the apex of the knockup, which is just about enough time for him to kill you if you are, say Benedict.

you are right, rath is kind of easy to get away from if you are near a thumper turret. however, in capture, there is no way to shake off enemies unless you can move faster than them, stun them, or go invisible. Since most stuns aren’t so easily used for escapes, except kelvins and boldurs, maybe one or two more since there are a lot of stuns, and S&A doesn’t move fast enough to get away from rath, whether or not you stealth. That leaves about 4 characters that can run away from rath, and benedict most of the time, but not if he catches him on cooldown or not near one of the two bases.

Caldarius is amazing for getting away, so thats about 6 characters that can get away from rath well, and a lot who can’t so much. Though some can out damage/stun him in a fight, it comes out to about 50/50 in capture.

I know, not everyone plays capture at all, but people do, and characters need balance for all things. Reducing the time from knockup initiation to the point where you can use skill slightly would be one thing. Reducing silence duration would be another (again ,slightly, im talking tuning kind of nerf, not the galilea kind) and maybe not letting rath use dreadwind until these effects wear off would finish the tuning.

Thanks for the info though, I appreciate the suggestions, and I’m sure others reading do too

I’ll find it, it was on a forum I read, kind of an odd piece since i think only two characters can blind, and the second one (cant remember who) has it as a pretty far up mutation. MAybe it reduces blinding affects, I’ll link it somehow once if find it.

As about galilea, i didn’t talk about her but mentioned she does have a good stun, this (the not talking about her) is because in the coming weeks she is going to be tuned quite a bit so she can no longer melee while sprinting etc that will make her more of a defending character. This was either stated in the battleplan or maybe just with that twitch interview that you should find pretty high up in the forums somewhere with randy if i recall.

And I guess maybe some people are weaker to cald’s blind than me, I still get melee hits and skill hits while blinded all the time, or avoid getting blinded by moving away before the cald fires. Blinding to me isn’t as sever either way as a knock up or stun due to the ability to still use skills, including evasive ones if you are a dps like bennedict or mellka or an invisibility or kelvin’s sublimate… I’m sure there’s more.

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I apologize it is not anti blindness, it’s extra movement speed (so even weirder to use…)

http://battlebornforum.com/threads/legendary-gear-compendium-with-screen-shots.57/page-2

The first one, shadoculars, alternatavely, just look up the name on google and click images, it isn’t the official battleborn forums so i can understand if you don’t want to go there for whatever reason.

Still cool. I imagine reducing CC effects would lower the time your blinded so there’s that. Main point though, you do have a solid point with Rath’s Catalytic Smash. If they took away the silence people would at least have a chance at survival or escape. There are still some balancing issues that need addressing so I’m hoping for the best in the coming weeks.

Rath is kind of an interesting issue to balance. His kit is very simple and binary, and doesn’t leave him with a lot of options out of get in there and hold your primary attack/ult until they’re dead. If they die, Rath succeeds and did gud; if not, he’s failed and is inferior to other melee picks because they can offer more than him: Pheobe has a massive aoe slow and pretty similar damage, Boldur is a right swell tank, Galilea’s… Galilea, Kelvin’s kit is just loaded with utility, and even Attikus has his ult. Thus, Rath needs to be able to go in and secure kills, or else he’s just flat out bad.

There isn’t really much to the issue that can be done without a kit overhaul, and I really hope that doesn’t happen. Rath is just naturally good at killing at the expense of things like safe waveclear pre-5 or gapclosers that aren’t seen coming from a mile away. It just takes good awareness (and dodging, if your character can pull that off) to make Rath pretty meh, and that’s why you sometimes see Raths running about and ending the game 0/10: he’s easily counterable with smart play.

(Also, this is why I main Cald. :stuck_out_tongue: )

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Gearbox has already said his damage is right where is should be, that and he dose not have a stun he had a knock up. If your using the stun helix your playing him wrong and losing out on a good chunk of dps. I feel like a good number of people do not realize that characters listed as easy pull good damage numbers easily and when mastered are just as good as advanced characters just with less stratigic options.

If you read I considered the knockup about equal to a stun, since it is a first person stun for about 0.5 seconds, and then a movement stun only for another 0.5 seconds or so. I am aware that most rath players use silence. No one said nerf his damage either. more like, his ability to stop you from puting out damage, or getting away, or doing anything at all, since 2 of his 3 abilities do that, and his other is a projectile. I don’t think his damage should be adjusted at all.

Well, what you said about him running out of options once he fails to use his abilities well… that’s the same for a lot of characters. I don’t think rath is on the level galilea was or is (maybe is right now actually) If pheobe runs out of moves, she’s in the same boat as rath, the only difference is she is weaker ability wise, no matter how you mutate her. Her teleport is a little more mobile than an endgame rath but isn’t nearly as good in any other aspect if you’re talking about seecuring kills. Well, maybe the slow stops a few dps, but most can use the z axis to their advantage and get away, or do something like boldurdash or sublimate or axe throw or, well, a lot of skills. even more so, rath still has more chase value than pheobe, and at this point im not really sure why anyone plays pheobe, because chances are, she’s just going to get destroyed by a rath (am I the only one who’s seen raths dominate a pheobe on the other team every time they f ace each other in a match?) Rath has high damage skills or no skills, and a lot of characters can use their skills in a multipurpose way, and rath can’t as easily, I know, but still, when it comes down to it, rath destroys people no matter what they can do or have and that’s honestly just a little broken if you ask me.

Again though, I’m talking tuning, not overhauling, as a nerf. Galilea nerfing isn’t what’s going to happeen here. Or ambra nerfing, im sure of that. But I think they may need to adjust some times or add some temp. cooldowns after skills or something for things.

By that last statement i mean, Rath can one hit almost anything by simply using his cataclysmic smash and silencing and then dreadwind. If they aligned the times so people can use their skills the second rath can dreadwind them, or even a second after he can, maybe it’d be a more even fight.

Look, if benedict misses hawkeye, he’s instantly dead half the time, but even so if he hits he doesn’t necessarily have instant kill on whomever he hits, boomsday isn’t a press and kill and doesn’t deal as much damage as you may think, though i admit is it pretty powerful, if it isn’t a direct hit, it can miss eveen if it was right next to them on impact.

None of these should be considered direct comparisons due to the fact that characters are indeed apples and oranges to one another, but nonetheless, it shows that rath could use some tuning. I think one of the few problems with battleborn are their big whole numbers, when it comes to nerfing and the game itself

I too hope that he doesn’t get a kit overhaul, he is a great character, and I love how he plays. He just needs some minor down tuning because he’s a small cut above the rest.

I find it ironic that your profile picture is Pheobe. Also, Pheobe’s primary attack actually has a higher dps, so that probably just comes down to the fact that Rath has a very wide swing whereas Pheobe has to aim.

Most of what Rath can bring to a team is his killing potential, and at first glance it is very high. But upon closer inspection, he can actually fall really flat. I’ve been playing a fair amount of WF lately, and whenever there are 2+ melee characters on the enemy team, I immediately grab Scrap Cannon’s knockback. As soon as I’m level 2, I know that S&A are going to be pretty much the only melee that can touch me unless I’m being stupid. I’m really happy whenever Rath comes about because he’s super vulnerable to cc and past 5 on the cooldown of his ult. I always have to be scared of Pheobe and especially Galilea 'cause Pheobe can dash around everywhere and Galilea’s Galilea. Rath just kind of brute forces his way to what everyone else does with a bit more finesse, so naturally he’s more powerful, but he also has more defined weaknesses. (Wouldn’t mind to see a slightly less damaging ult though.)

(heh, forgot to change that, it’s the default for me)

Well, two I can think of that I use all the time: El dragon has a stun when enfuego… Shane and aurox can spec into one… And honestly the Rath stun is harder to use and more difficult to set up than both of theirs, and costs you both of his abilities.

Oh, and another counter top him is ANYONE with an off-hand shield! They can just push him away and zone him out whether he’s ulting, silencing them or whatever. I bully him with Boldur constantly.

I think Rath’s ultimate should be nerfed but other than he’s fine.

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