Rath is naturally overpowered

Does anyone else get absolutely melted by Rath because of the completely inability to get out of his attack radius? Attacks per second? I couldn’t even tell you because it’s legitimately non stop…

The key when fighting Rath is to not get in his attack range, and especially not when alone. While that sounds like a “get good” response, it isn’t. Rath is meant to be very stifling when he gets in your face due to his high attack speed and run speed, making it difficult to get away. If he manages to knock you up with Catalytic Smash and you land on his Dreadwind, you will quite likely die, too, unless you are beefy or have some sort of escape.

Rath does not have much to close the gap save his high run speed, so he tends to be vulnerable while at range, and has low health and shields. He cannot turn invisible, teleport, or leap far (Catalytic Smash can be augmented to do a forward smash, but it is not too far and burning it early to close means he cannot use it as a finisher, which is good for you). Rath relies on getting close and spamming his attacks to leech health, so if he is not close to anyone he is absolutely useless and melts.

I don’t disagree that Rath, played well, is strong, but he is not overpowered. He is simply very strong when he does what he is supposed to and gets in your face. If he is prevented from doing that, or gets CCed, he goes down hard.

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I wont bother with a long winded response other than to say I disagree.

Rath has some really good tools at his disposal, but I don’t think he is even close to being OP.

I have never seen Rath as a threat for the very same reasons stated above. Short of that knock up, he has nothing to ensure the kill doesn’t run.

If Rath is truly as vicious as it is implied by those who die to him, he is countered easily enough: sprint speed items. He can’t slice if you are out of his range and running into your team.

Though, normally, any CC works.

He runs through knockback like it’s not even cast…

Ive never experienced him being immune to any form of CC and it works well as a deterrent.

Rath is a one-trick-pony assassin, meaning two things;

  1. Hes incredibly predictable and it isnt too hard to learn his current players playstyle because of this (More or less subjective opinion there but he is predictable, no doubt)
  2. If he catches you out, youre screwed. Hes an assassin, its what they do; Hes just particularly easy to wrap your head around and play to a better potential

If there is a Rath, you have to keep track of him and learn his zoning habits; Where does he like to stay? What are his favorite methods of engage? Does he have a pattern to his presence in lane or is he running around aimlessly slashing at enemies? These are important to note for the entire enemy team but in my experience, I pay more attention to heros who can alpha-strike me to do death, such as an assassin like Rath and that keeps me well away from his Dreadwind, most of the time while not hindering the rest of my gameplay

I hope that helps you deal with him better as I dont foresee a change coming to Rath for a while, Im not aware of any attention he has from the devs so correct me if Im wrong and they are looking at him

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I feel like his biggest problem is that he can 100-0 you with his ultimate easily, which no other character is capable of doing.

I see a lot of people suggesting picking a particular character to counter whatever character they believe is over performing or that they just have a hard time against. The problem with this argument is that you can’t counter pick in battleborn. You will not know who is on the enemy team until after your team has finished picking.

Assassin’s shouldn’t have the support survivability of a tank and movement speed of El Dragon, but hey that’s just my opinion.

Level 1 Rath deals 55 damage per hit, 57 on his AoE spin-swing. His combo is four hits, 55/55/55/57. This equals 222 damage per full basic combo at level 1; At 8% Lifesteal, hes healing for 17.76 HP per full basic combo and 10% Lifesteal per skill, 200 damage on his Crossblade = 20 HP back. These are base level 1 numbers, you can do the math yourself on scaling, damage scales at 4% per level. This is all according to the Battleborn Bible. If you do all the math, hes not surviving anything using Lifesteal until late game when scaling and Helix mods/gear actually make those numbers better. Thusly, up until Rath gets level 5, hes nothing special and continues to only be annoying as opposed to oppressing once passed level 5, in my personal experience (Because hes not the only one gaining strength). Regardless, I want you to understand I respect your veiwpoint and I only am supplying you with more information on Rath to help your decision on whether hes too strong or not

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4 seconds isn’t a longh time to beable to counter anything he does, 4 seconds is usually all you have against his ult.

That ult needs a drastic cooldown nerf, because as it stands it’s way too powerful to be at where it is now. I die to his ult only to respawn and die to his ult the second I see him again. Great mechanics bro.

Yea, that 54 second cool down is a bit ridiculous…

Just to put that into perspective

Renya - 45 secs

Phoebe - 55 secs

Caldarius - 60 secs

El dragon - 60 secs

Atticus - 70 secs

Marquis - 80 secs

Benedict - 85 secs

Yea, he is definitely on the shorter cool down range, especially for a ult that is basically a guaranteed kill, even against a group.

Gear is a bad countrr to “op” threads… we dont know what were fighting until after we choose gear… im not going to take shield pen incase of kleese and sprint speed incase of Rath… its just not useful against most others and usually you cant stack the stats you want.

Rath needs a redistribution of damage and a nerf to auto attack range… you can be out of the animation range and take damage still… its pretty dumb.

I didn’t see anyone use gear as a counter?

The thread seems to rather instead be full of reasons why Rath may not be OP due to how easily countered or avoided he is.

A good player will make a battle be fought in their favour and not engage when they are out of their element. A great example would be how Maquis and Thorn will Melt a Kited Rath or one attacked in the open. Here they are playing to their strengths and Rath’s weaknesses.

On the flip side a Rath that manages to close that gap and get on either of these ranged chars via fighting in other areas of the map or picking off over extends chars, he will have an advantage as the fight in now in a position that suits his strengths.

It seems the game has some really bad labels for the chars and as well as some being mis-labelled, there are almost sub roles that specific chars fill well and as this is nit mentioned, this can cause confusion on who/which class plays well against which other char/class.

There are far more roles than just tank, healer, dps and ranged and melee and as such it takes real knowledge of each of the characters to work out their exact role, and how they best excel and what their weaknesses are.

An example of this would be fighting against Isic who has a ward shield ability that can be augmented to either reflect projectiles, or damage melee attacks upon contact. They have very different animations so someone who knows this will be able to see if he has specced to block ranged or melee. Depending on what Helix choice an enemy Isic has chosen can dictate who is best to attack him, ranged or melee. This is something you would have to identify and work out on the fly in game and adapt to as a team in order kill him!

You seem to suggest choosing Shield Pen as a counter to Rath as a gear choice. I would chose my gear to play to the strengths of my char and not choose it to try and counter one specific char I might not even face. If I was to counter Rath it would be in play-style and to only fight Rath on my terms in regards to where and when we fight, not his. Or to have the best suited counter class on my team to give him a hard time!

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I was refering to comment 5. Eggplants comment.

True enough, though I still don’t see Rath as a threat and I still insist on any CC. If you do not, then perhaps you should be aware of where the assassin is on the field, as he is just that: an assassin.

I listen to my own words well enough and melt him or CC him, depending on if I am a ranged or a melee.

… also, Sprint speed is never bad, no matter the situation.

Nah bruh… lore legendary and attack damage and speed best setup :stuck_out_tongue: tho the healing sprint legendary is pretty dope too

I was just thinking the same thing. What exactly is a pusher because that is what Benedict and Ghalt is supposed to be. Alani is what I picture when I think pusher (not trying to get into the OP debate here) BC she almost forces the other team back. When I think controller I think kleese who I usually see maintain taken areas. Then there is territorial, which seems a lot like controller. Yea, I’m a bit confused.

I believe Gearbox intends “Pusher” to mean “a hero that can clear a lane’s minions quickly.” In other words, you push where the lane’s minions meet back towards the enemy’s base by wiping out the enemy minions so yours go farther, advancing the line of scrimmage, so to speak. Benedict fills the role due to his rocket launcher’s AoE, and Ghalt because his revolver shotgun can kill minions very quickly when he gets in their faces.

To be honest, though, this is barely of significance in Battleborn because it is not MOBA enough with respect to lanes and minion waves. In most MOBAs, you tend to sit back and farm and only push the lane when you feel ready to do so and generally have more control of it. Here, you tend to be engaged with enemy players from the beginning and do not often consciously push the lane because it sort of pushes itself as your team does better.

If there were more lanes and more of a MOBA feel to Incursion the pusher role would probably be more important.

I’m a console player so excuse my ignorance. The only MOBAs I have experience with is Smite and Monday night combat.

Benedict and ghalt seem like really crappy pushers then. I assumed that Benedict’s role is to get behind enemy lines and destroy their infrastructure thus allowing the team to push. If what you are saying is the role of a pusher they are terrible pushers. Characters like whisky foxtrot and orindi and even millka with her acid is much better at that. You would have to put a close combat Ghalt in the middle of battle and have him fight bots for that to work and that’s no bueno.

Alani is definitely a pusher, among other things.

Yea, the roles seem a bit wonky