Rath needs a buff

First off I just want to state that I am level 15 with Rath, so I have used him as much as I can. I came in here hoping to convince a few people that Rath could use a little bit of buffing as he isn’t really the assassin he could be.

The first thing I want to talk about is his helix upgrade. Crossblade is by far one of, if not the, weakest move in the game. It’s hard to hit, easy to dodge, and has a lackluster upgrade; which slows enemies for 3 seconds which is good until you realize Galilea can STUN an enemy for NO upgrade cost at all. Then on the other hand catalytic smash now spreads left and right, but honestly that’s useless because it’s so easy to hit catalytic smash already.

Then his level 2 upgrades are extremely weak, even the mutation, as again, crossblade is extremely unreliable to hit. But restoring his shields is a very good idea, since Rath is one of the squishiest characters in the game.

Now his 3rd one is the worst upgrade of them all… what benefit does Rath gain from double jumping? In all the matches I have played with Rath, I can think of no situation where a double jump was necessary. Even for escaping, it’s terrible. And then on the other side, you spin twice at the end of your main combo. Again, lackluster. Not really that effective as the main problem with Rath is that people get away from him as his range is limited. What good is spinning twice if you aren’t in range?

Now his 4th upgrade, the right side specifically, is perfect. A silence so that he can pursue and harass safely. A great disruption as well. His left is weak as, again, catalytic smash is easy to hit and has great range.

Level 5 is when Rath is deadly with his dread wind which you will find no complaints here. His upgrades are okay at best, 11% life steal is nothing with how fast Rath loses health in a fight, his 20% is good enough but his mutation… just terrible. Why would you remove life steal from his skills? Makes no sense at all. I have used the mutation in battle PLENTY of times to tell you that the buff to his melee is not even close to justify losing life steal from your skills. It makes him worse in fact.

Tier 6 sucks altogether. Why would you double the length of such an easy to hit move, especially when it has good range already? Makes no sense. 15% damage is bleh for crossblades.

Tier 7 is good to me. 30% movement speed when shield is broken. It’s a good start to an escape or a desperate pursuit. 18% damage is fine. Not necessary, because I feel his damage is good, but this is welcome. And his best mutation is spin to slow… an absolute great mutation, I just think it should last longer.

Tier 8… again, why double the length of crossblade? What even is the use of increasing the range of this move? It’s dumb. Just terrible. On the other hand, lower cool downs is always a plus.

Tier 9 is fine. It gives a nice reward to the flow of Rath’'s moves. Either upgrade is fine.

Tier 10 is great. Dreadhart chained with evasive maneuvers is INSANE. Desperate Assault is great chained with evasive maneuvers. The mutation however, is decent.

I think the main problem with Rath is his helix. There is very little flow to it. I think at the end there was a great scheme in him getting more powerful once his shields are broken, but by the time you get there the game is almost over. He just gets stomped on early game as you can barely kill minions without it being a suicide mission, as even minions are capable of standing up to you, Rath being so squishy. I think Rath might need a complete rework in the future, but for now I just want some ideas to help Rath perform is role a little better; which is an assassin

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I find Rath to be one of the most powerful characters mid to late game. I would be 100% down with a re-work that added more to his kit, but they’d have to tone Dreadwind wayyyyy down. The knock up/silence/Dreadwind combo is one of the best in the game.

I’m sorry, the disrespect is gonna be real here:

I’m also a level 15 Rath and just from reading what you’ve posted here I can tell I’d flatten you something awful.

Crossblade is one of the best moves in the game. Particularly when chained together and timed correctly when taking Anger’s Echo. It’s only difficult to hit, quite frankly, if you have bad aim.

The slow on Crossblade is outrageously powerful, especially early game.

Spin to Win is flat out amazing, particularly when you stack attack speed and attack damage items.

+15% to Crossblade is huge, as is +11% Lifesteal on EVERY melee swing, as well as +18% damage on all attacks.

His “kit” is perfectly fine at the moment. There are some abilities that are more suited for PvE (Wider smash, Evasive Maneuvers, etc) but he doesn’t need a buff. Literally in no way is he underpowered.

The fact that Galilea can silence people for no reason doesn’t mean you need to rework Rath’s kit; it means you need to rework hers.

The ONLY thing Rath needs reworked is his moveset. Currently, Dreadwind is too strong for an Ultimate imo. I’d rather see you Unsheathe Precept (the ultra greatsword you have on your back) and get like 3-5 powerful swings instead, as opposed to Whirlwinding everyone to death.

And this is all being said as a guy who mains Rath, at level 15, with almost 1400 kills and under 400 deaths.

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How could you possibly make him any better of an assassin without overpowering him?

catalytic smash popup+dreadwind= death or crossblade+catalytic smash with a certain helix choice gives you a stunned opponent that you can pretty much basic attack to death and save your dreadwind. Rath is just as good as he needs to be. He catches you out of position and you die. Anything more for an assassin is OP

Crossblade is actually great as it’s not actually intended to be a big damage dealer. It upgrades to having other properties for a reason and it’s not hard to hit, it’s pretty big and moves in a straight line.

Nothing lackluster about the second spin attack given that his primary attack does good damage. If you get his stun combo through the helix it’ll make a notable difference in damage when you have a second spin on your primary attack combo and your opponent has to sit there and take the extra hit. (also keep in mind that it’s not all about killing other players, the extra spin is obviously extra damage to bots)

The double jump is good for being able to reach opponents mid air after a catalytic smash popup. Gives you a few extra hits being able to reach them as they’re first popped up. Also I HAVE been in situations where it’s either helped me escape or it’s helped me get a kill because I used it to reach someone who thought they were safe. The double jump throws off peoples aim because they don’t expect it. Everything has its uses

Leaping catalytic smash is obviously good for closing in and good for ensuring you can reach your opponent to get the stun after a crossblade hit if you chose that. I’d prefer more mobility over a blind unless I’m getting into team fights and I just need to disrupt someone, which you shouldn’t be doing much as an assassin anyway so it’s pretty situational.

Everything else is fine as well. I don’t have every mutation so I can’t speak on them but not every helix upgrade needs to be some super power up, some are only to be used for certain circumstances but everything can be useful.

IMO he’s fine as is, he already own everyone 1v1 which is his job

Holy crap someone who can take an objective look at their fav character.

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No disrespect taken. 3000 kills and roughly 700 deaths with Rath. I wouldn’t make a post without having FULLY experienced his whole character. But that’s why I made this, to discuss and perhaps find a solution.

I would just like to point out that the damage is not what is problematic with crossblades. It’s just weak altogether IN GAME. Once you hit the higher level players (which I am sure you have) 3 second slow is nothing and in fact, can sometimes backfire as Rath, ESPECIALLY in early levels, is as fragile as a dandelion. And 15% ain’t much of an upgrade either, as the characters that are easy to hit are tanks, and the ones that are weak are quick and hard to hit and honestly it doesn’t even take that much health from the weaker guys either. So to me, if it’s not about health, there has to be some side effects right? But aside from the slow, what beneficial effects are there? More range? Why do you need that? Why is that even an option? I appreciate Rath having a long range ability though, but they could have done more with it. If they had an upgrade where enemies hit with crossblades take more damage from Rath or where he steals more health from enemies slowed by crossblades, then that would be a nice setup and overall FLOW to his character.

Also, we know, Rath can struggle against tanks very early and against most melee characters, like Boldur, El Dragon, and of course Galilea, he isn’t sustained enough. And in game, 11% life steal is nothing when your opponents can kill you quicker than you can heal as Raths main weakness is his health. So on paper it sounds good. In game, it isn’t as great as it sounds. Even combined with 18% you have to realize how powerful people are at level 7… by no means is a 18% upgrade meant to be taken lightly, but you have to understand how powerful OTHER characters are at the same level. 18% means nothing to most characters. Even combined with his personal item, Rath struggles to deal damage faster than he is losing it.

His Spin to Win to me is weak because it can be escaped so easily since your opponents can sprint and you can’t while attacking. Of course his spin to slow helps, which is what I use personally, but even big, slow, bulky characters like Ghalt are able to jump away because, as Strange as it may seem, his spin to slow doesn’t chain fast enough in the 1 second time frame, giving the prey time to escape. But I understand spin to win has its uses for cc, so I can understand where I may have went wrong for that one.

Now, his Dreadwind is what saves this character entirely as he can obliterate everything in one use. It honestly may be the best ult in the game and truthfully, this is what makes people think Rath is a top tier guy. His ultimate is crazy, but can be stopped by any move (if the Rath user for some reason did not choose the silence effect) and can be stopped from the outside as well. Don’t get me wrong. This move is super crazy OP. But this is the one thing that Rath has that keeps high level player on edge. I don’t fear catalytic smash. I don’t fear spin to slow. I sure as heck don’t fear crossblades. I fear Dreadwind… and I believe if you change this move, Rath is next to nothing because most of the collective Rath kills from around the world I guarantee are from players, low level and high, noobs and experts, using Dreadwind.

A 3 second slow is absolutely detrimental at ANY point in the game. That skill does not exist for pure damage. That’s what the abomination of an ultimate is for.

Mind you, I’m not going to claim to be part of the Rath mastery club. I’m around rank 10 with him. But I’m looking at the hard numbers here. His burst damage is in another league entirely when compared to other assassins. I don’t know how you can say he needs any kind of buff.

Ther are alot of ways to build and play rath if people tinker with his augments personally i like his double jump on a few builds and his stun talent

Part of what I said was wrong lol. He has a silence not a blind and he can’t have both double jump and the extra spin at the same time but he still doesn’t need a buff imo

I don’t think he needs a buff but he is a classic pub stomp hero. He does significantly worse against experienced players, especially in organized premade games.

Please tell me you are kidding. Rath is one of the most powerful heros. A slow at level 1 with an ability that isnt terrible to hit. The easiest and best knock-up to use in the game that is a part of his kit from level 1? Rath is not supposed to go head to head with a Galelia or Boulder…you know, most Assassins will lose in a straight 1v1 against a Bruiser…

Rath is the master of setting things up for the team. Knock-up in to a Gally Stun or Montana stun equals dead Battleborn. He also has the damage and sustain to 1v1 almost any character in the game.

The only problem with Rath is his Ultimate. It needs to be toned down to about 65-70 damage instead of over 80 per hit. It was around 55 in the CTT and was pitifully weak. 65-70 would bring it to a good place I believe.

This seems like a “buff my favorite character” thread instead of objectively looking at the character as a whole. So Im glad you have over a 3KD with Rath, but your logic is entirely false and untrue.

Rath is A tier right now due to his Ult, when Ult is brought down, he will be balanced.

Rath is nowhere near A tier… his ultimate is S tier yeah, but he is B tier at the most overall. And I think, the buff he needs is not Damage, as I have said earlier, damage is not a problem with Rath. His helix has little flow to it as I personally think it doesn’t build upon Crossblades enough, and no I don’t mean damage, I mean overall usefulness. Nobody here has yet to address the fact we have 2 whole upgrade to increase the range of both Catalytic Smash and Crossblades. Tell me, does anyone here actually pick those? No. Well, they shouldn’t. And everyone who has played Rath knows they shouldn’t.

But again, this is not a DPS buff I am calling for. I am asking for a buff to other things, one his sustainability is awful. He isn’t sustained enough as, again, his health falls faster than he can gain it, not just against other heroes, but MINIONS in PVE. Because there have been endless amounts of times where Rath, either me or another player, was on the brink of survival going against a minion. And in PVP it’s even worse, granted, yes, I realize there are times when it can and does save you. But those times are few and limited. I figure a 2% buff to the life steal should do okay, as Rath, again, is very fragile. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

And, no this is not a buff my favorite character thing. I am already well off the way he is, however, I would just like to round out the edges, in a way. For instance, can we agree that doubling the range of crossblades and catalytic smash could be replaced by something else? I am sure one of you will try to convince me of its uses, and trust me I am well aware of the once in a blue moon chance you need that length, but seriously? What can we replace those skills with? That’s what I meant when I said he needs a buff. So… would an upgrade that allows him to sprint while he attacks or get faster when he attacks be too OP or would it be good for him? As an assassin, speed is essential, and Rath is one of the fastest characters in the game, but just for those who aren’t getting what I am saying.

Rath doesn’t need damage. No skill of his need a damage upgrade.

Every character needs weaknesses. There’s no doubt that Rath’s Catalytic Smash -> Dreadwind is enough to ruin the day of most characters, and he sure as heck doesn’t need any damage buffs in any regard. However, because he deals so much damage, he needs to be weak in other areas so that he doesn’t just start stomping everything. If he wasn’t fragile, he could just charge at enemies with little fear of death and then use his skill lifesteal to keep himself alive. As it stands, he needs tthe weaknesses and poor helixes that he has to balance his immense damage potential.

I can respect that answer. I guess he needs something to justify that ridiculous ultimate.

3000 kills and 700 deaths with Rath and you think he needs a buff? Go play with Foxtrot for a week and tell us how underpowered Rath is.

Poor helix choices? If you are choosing 15% damage on crossblade instead of double range of Smash, you are not playing Rath to his highest level. Rath is perfectly fine how he is. Life-steal shouldnt be a thing thait keeps you up during battle. It is for sustaining in lane and not having to teleport back nearly as often because you can hit minions to heal up for the next fight.

There are many different characters that need to be addressed before Rath gets any changes done besides lowering his Ult Damage.

This. He arguably has the best ultimate in the game so something has to balance him out.

I would have to disagree. Not a Rath master, but I know how to play him damn well. He is perfectly balanced ATM. His helixes flow smoothly imo, because the slow is insane, the shield restore compliments his agressive playstyle, the double-jump is for when you are up against snipers hiding in difficult-to-reach places, the leap on Cataclysmic smash is meant to go with his stun helix to close gaps, 18% more damage is nothing to ignore, more cooldowns is always helpful, extra damage on Crossblade after Cataclysmic Smash is again nothing to ignore, and then movement on his ultimate is amazing for keeping with targets like Orendi or Thorn.

Let’s just take a moment and understand how insanely broken his ultimate is.

As for how the skills work together: Cataclysmic Smash, Crossblade while they are airborne. No reason to miss that, it’s a free freaking shot. Cataclysmic Smash, Dreadwind = win. For the stun helix, its shotgun the Crossblade, then leap at them with Cataclysmic Smash for the stun, then profit.

Rath is in no way, shape, or form underpowered or in need of a buff. His squishiness is the drawback to such a high damage character.

He’s meant to be a glass cannon type of character. I think more lifesteal would make him OP, it’s meant to keep him alive and it does. It’s his job to get in, do damage and get out. Any more sustainability and he wouldn’t be an assassin anymore, he’d be an OP brawler. We don’t need people hating him like they hate Galilea lol. I agree that the extended crossblade range is a pretty lame helix choice and should definitely be replaced, it could be useful but not in enough situations to justify ever choosing it over a reduced cooldown. But I do see a use for the extended shockwave length of catalytic smash. It already goes pretty far and the helix doubles it. That’s even more range on an already great popup attack. At the very least it slows them down for you to catch up and deal some damage. At its best it’s an easier way to set up a teammate to finish them off and you don’t even have to be close. The increase in crossblades damage isn’t great but it’s there to slightly up your damage. Not every helix choice needs to be a huge game changer. Most characters have helix choices that don’t make major changes and I think that’s fine

I hate the long rang leap augment on his flash ability ally collision CAN ruin a stun moment so that leap is the most disappointing augment imho with him. The rest of his augment kits are perfect if people would stop using the same cookie cutter rath build they will know he has probably the most flexible helix in terms of how you can augment his first two abilitys.