Re: Non-elemental Wrath Question

tl;dr: You CANNOT get a non-elemental, non-Sober Wrath.

A while back, I posed a question in this thread about the possibility of a non-elemental, non-Sober “Wrath” sniper rifle (specifically S&S).
Basically, my theory was this:

  • The Wrath title requires a tech level of 7.
  • S&S mat3 gives +2 tech, barrel4: +2 tech, PPZ body5: +1 tech, sight3: +1 tech, stock3: +1 tech.
  • Total = 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 7
  • Therefore, a gun with these specific parts could be a Wrath, leaving it’s accessory slot open for stat boosting parts like the Deep or Brisk accessories (while utilizing the damage boost granted by the Wrath title).

(EDIT: It’s important to note here: the Thunder/Driver title only has a 2.0 priority, so it would never override Wrath)

For comparison, here’s a legitimate Sober accessory Wrath, also with a total of 7 tech:

mat3 + barrel4 + Sober acc + body5 + sight1 + stock 1 = 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 = 7

Now here’s the theoretical Deep Wrath, with its Thunder counterpart:

As you can see, the Wrath title gives a significant damage boost.

My curiosity finally got the best of me, and I decided to make something which would spawn large amounts of S&S snipers. I was literally up to my neck in guns:

until, 8000+ guns later, I finally got at least the non-accessory version of what I was looking for:

As you can see, it did not get the Wrath title. This makes no sense, as it meets all the requirements for the title.
However, this gun has no accessory. Maybe it doesn’t meet the rarity requirement of the Wrath title?

So I spawned S&S snipers which were constrained to ONLY the necessary parts, to see if Brisk and Deep versions suffered the same fate:

Yup, still Thunders. So no Deep/Brisk Wraths are possible. :frowning:

To try and figure out why this is, I copied over all the necessary stuff to a new package, and edited the first requirement out of the Wrath title (Weapon Rarity):

and again:

Then I set the tech level requirement to just 1. Now ANY barrel4 semi-auto sniper should be a Wrath, as it already has at least 2 tech, right?:

Nope, STILL not a Wrath. Something is wrong here.

As a final straw, I edited barrel4’s tech boost to +99:

and still:

Not a Wrath, even with over 100 overall tech and a tech level requirement of 1. It did, however, spawn as a Wrath when I set the tech requirement to 0, so at least we can be sure that that requirement is where it fails.

My theory: In order to qualify for the Wrath title, the gun MUST have an accessory which boosts tech, along with the overall tech level requirements. This is why a Sober sniper of equal tech level can have the Wrath title while the version in question cannot. Sober gives +2 tech, and Deep/Brisk give no tech boost.


You mean, it’s all been in vain?

We’ve been hunting for the mythic S&S non-elemental Wrath that out damages any other semi-auto sniper that ISNT EVEN REAL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Yup, it’s a shame. If I ever find one I’m totally changing the title in WillowTree. It’s not my fault Borderlands doesn’t honor its own title requirements. :p

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If they ever “remaster” Bl1, they should totally change this. The chances of someone actually finding one are so low it won’t matter, but we need something to aim for dammit!

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@NOLAftw, you were you the guy who made the Best Gear website, right?

Will the S&S Wraths be taken off?

Nope, that was UFKHBA. Not sure if he’s still around.

I never expected to find something with such strict requirements to spawn anyways. At least now I know it can never happen haha.

Thanks Nola! :smile:

Yeah, but I thought it was cool that there was such a specific, more powerful weapon to shoot for. Even if I knew I would never find it.

Torgue and Dahl non-elemental Wraths can actually exist and are just as specific/rare. However, they MUST have the Sober accessory to reach 7 tech, so they are not upgrades over a deep/brisk Thunder. (They can have any mat since no Torgue or Dahl mats increase tech).

Torgue Wrath

Torgue Deep Thunder

Dahl Wrath

Dahl Deep Thunder

I guess this is my new holy grail, not because it’s better but because it’s super rare and mat2 looks cool:

WHAT?!? NOOoOOOOOoOOOoOOoOOOooooooo… All this time searching and ITS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE?!?

Imma going to go cry now nola. Also…
@Zjapper sorry buddy, seems like we have wasted our time. Guess ill go for the dahl mat 2 wrath as my holy grail now like nola.

What about Hyperion?

A red Non-elemental Wrath would be cool.

This is my non-elemental Wrath, it’s no where near perfect, but it’s still a great find from a year or so ago.

Nice one there. I kinda like the LB Vicious ones too since the fire rate is still decent. Oh yeah I didn’t mention the Hyperion Wraths because, while they’re more rare than Sober S&S Wraths, they aren’t as rare as other non-elemental Wraths (all Hyperion mats increase tech by 1). In fact, I’ve found a couple.

But I’ll add them to be complete.

Yeah, in usually a PPZ guy.

But if we’re looking for the highest damaging semi-auto sniper doesn’t LB win out due to prefixs other than Liquid. (LIQUUUUUUUUIIIID)

A LB370.W [prefix that escapes me] Wrath would look and feel awesome, sometimes slower weapons feel more badass.

Yeah Vicious is a really good prefix. Gives a 15% damage boost and 80% reload speed boost (or 80% reload time reduction? not really sure). It kinda makes up for LB’s crappiness.

Here’s the Hyperion stuff:

Fun fact: out of the 205 Hyperion Snipers I spawned, 7 of them had material 2. Seven. Out of two-hundred five.


What percentage of Dahls were Urban, in my experiance its rarer than Red.

EDIT: @NOLAftw Are Gearbox Wraths possible? GearCalc doesnt think so, even though the requirments are met. Because a non-elemental Gearbox Wrath would truly be a prize gun. (especially if it was the awesome looking material, which is mat1 I think)

I didn’t count the Dahls, but I think it was a similar percentage.

And can you even get Gearbox semi-auto snipers? I thought the Circle of Duty missions only gave the bolt action versions, but it’s been a long time since I farmed those missions. If you can get them, then yeah a Gearbox non-elem Wrath would be possible with the right parts, with the same restrictions as Dahl and Torgue.

Interesting stuff, I wonder what other sought after grails would turn out to not exist because of the needing acc to boost tech thing. Guess this makes me even more convinced that my personal holy grail is the best sniper in the game (Hyperion PPZ570.G Crimson Lance, barrel5, deep acc, and scope5)

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A level 3 semi auto gearbox sniper was given as the pre order bonus when the game was first released - the parts were fixed though - so the gun type exists but it’s not possible for them to spawn anywhere else as far as I know. Aside from willowtree/gearcalc anyway.