Reality is it will take more than a single patch to fix the game

Mayhem 2.0 added too much to the game, its the single biggest update since the games launch, and fixing the prodigious balancing and scaling issues, not to mention the modifiers which seems to be contentious at best, is going to take SO MUCH work, and honestly, I’ve always gotten the impression that GBX Is REALLY REALLY struggling getting a handle on their own game’s bloated, convoluted code. It honestly feels like the game’s code is held together by duct tape and any little hotfix or patch is risking pulling the whole thing apart. Its this weird sense of dread I get every time a patch or hotfix hits.

So realistically, this will take 2-3 patches if all things align perfectly. My gut feeling is that its going to get even worse before it gets better, probably by the holidays we will have a stable, balanced product we can come back to.

Kind of a related thought: is there such a thing as programming consultants that GBX can hire to clean up the games code? Right now in my company we hired a 3rd tier consultant… so a consultant to a consultant to the subcontractor we hired (no joke). Is something like this possible in the video game industry? I just feel like they could use the help cleaning up their games code a bit.

Also for the love of GOD start doing Test servers with limited access to known players. This cant be that hard to do.


the game was broken before M2.0 now its even worse its still crashing and freezing on xbox since launch the menu still lags it still takes 3 minutes to get to the main menu.


Not to mention they will almost certainly drop the next raid soon because they can’t help themselves (see adding a new update and 2 limited time events for just ONE example among many) that will ALSO add more new content and it will ALSO most likely break something else in the game I’m sure. Just when they were starting to get the foundation mostly settled up, they literally just nuked it all to start over from an even worse beginning point than they had at launch IMHO.


They’ll need another patch to fix what they’ll break in the first patch.

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Too much,too many, too… mayhem.
Gearbox must have had giant posters with MAYHEM written in bold letters everywhere during BL3 development. Everything is over the top imo. The constant change in meta is surely not an accident. That’s what they want. Keep us on our toes.
But they just over do it in everything. I’ve been a fanboy since day one and I try to stay positive but…
I’m playing “the other looter” right now.

That’s (part of) what I mean.
Mayhem 2.0 AND the Cartel on the same week. Add “Loot the Universe” for good measure. There is a thing as too much.


100% dead on. They have clearly bit off more than their dev team can chew with this game.

I have said this same exact thing on these forums many times. They need to bring in a more accomplished RPG dev to help with with figuring out the math on how to make all of the skills and items scale properly. I think it all comes down to $$$ though, so there’s no chance that would ever happen.

MS window itself have many bugs, we stilll got blue screen, even they are doing what a software company is doing. don’t force too much on any company to fix their software bugs , it’s a no end question, report what u encounter if the bug occurs

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Oh yeah it’s gonna take more than 1 patch. Actually it will take more than just patches. An overhaul or an improvement on their testing and release process is a must. It would be bad if the real issue is bad conceptualization and planning because that’s something you can’t fix quickly.

MAYHEM!!! They did promise us that much at least and on that they have delivered. Lol.

I’m just along for the ride. Even as broken as it is, there’s still fun to be had. Just remember that the meta will change and we may wind up with a completely different game with each patch.

I have faith that GBX will wind up with a solid polished game once it’s all said and done with. The devs love borderlands as much as we do. It just may be a bit of a roller coaster getting there.

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Split screen on the other hand…

I believe the devs love the game as much as we do, unfortunately I also believe and have seen more times than I can count now how the devs opinions/feelings don’t matter. Someone is in charge (we all know who it is) and if that someone doesn’t have a clear direction or even worse; is just not good at their job then the product will suffer. BL3 is suffering. 7 months in and it erased its entire progress to basically start over, but even worse because BL3 was actually mostly alright at launch. This is the worst the game has ever been IMHO.

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“Delete your cache”
“Reinstall the game”
“and upload a video with the problem”
These are the answers from GB support, all they do is avoid responsability and giving dead ends ir order to the user stop “complaining” .
And the most “funny” part is that days after you generated the ticket and explain the problem they send you back a message saying:
“Due to you didn’t contact us again we will consider the problem is solved and the case will be closed”.


A post was merged into an existing topic: Bad Posts (for individual posts not topics)

That’s the thing : While not ALL problem can be fixed at once, some of them are really fast to mass solve, and the first one is obviously “balance” : Anything that tickle in M10 need a massive damage boost to fit the bill, period.

It won’t solve everything but it’ll solve a good chunk of the problem at once and make for a vastly better game before they fix the rest.

And doing this require NO deep change to the code, just editing some numbers

Any evidence of this statement as its given in a factual way. Have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary and would be intrigued as to where folks get this from.


Software developer here. By no means an authority, but your suggestions seem to come from a non-technical perspective so I want to offer my take on it.

Nobody knows how “bloated” code is from the outside, looking-in. Even professional developers have no way of magically guessing looking at a video game what the code underneath looks like. There is code that runs perfectly that is structured horrifically underneath. There is code that looks syntactically-correct but has issues in production. There are bugs you’ll see in a production environment that you won’t see in a staging or developer environment (minute differences in environment setups, readable code vs. minified or compiled production code, etc).

The main issue with games development, and I’m generalising, is budget. Margins for investment are very low, and a lot of developers work incredibly unfair hours because it’s (apparently) not realistic to upscale staff. Every software project has scope creep. Every software project runs into logistical problems. It’s a part of the industry (any software industry). But a lot of games development keeps coming back to budget.

This by its very nature creates more room for mistakes than ideally anyone working on a game would like. This means code gets rushed. This means that bugs raised by QA aren’t fixed immediately. It all contributes to the end product.

It also means that “hire more people” isn’t a viable suggestion, nor if even possible would it address any core issues that lead to product instability. It’s just the nature of games development, at least until the market changes substantially to allow for a more realistic pace of development (consumers resist price increases though, which makes this tricky, and senior management like their bonuses, which also makes this tricky).

For a final bit on a test server - these things aren’t simple to setup, and there’s also SHiFT to consider. You’d have to prove the return on investment would be worth it. I doubt it would be. The problem isn’t that bugs don’t get raised. It’s that there’s very limited resource generally (I don’t know Gearbox) to fix these things in a reasonable timespan (without affecting current or future commitments that are lined up).


All this is well and good, but the simple counter point here is that other developers are capable of doing things like test servers and generally have much tighter quality control standards these days, so why is GBX not able to figure it out? Cost? Resources? 2K being unreasonable with deadlines? Lack of interest/care? Poor programming skills? Whatever it is, there is clearly a legitimate issue here.

Some of the issues, like spending weeks buffing the hell out of Iron Bear and other weapons only to make them somewhat useless in Mayhem 2.0 just a couple of weeks later speaks to some level of organizational dysfunction between coding teams. I mean take a gander at the review scores of the other games they have developed between BL2 and 3. It ain’t pretty. They’ve got some stuff to figure out.

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Excellent post!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Personally had more Crash to OS types since the 2.0 update than before.

“Mythical Man Month” is a pretty good book on this subject.