ok i’ve came up with this
https://bl2skills.com/siren.html#555001550055050104301550512511
thoughts? lol
1 Like
Take a point from Accelerate for Kinetic Reflection - for the damage reduction.
Life Tap is good at one point. I’d put a couple in Elated.
The thing with her healing skills is you want to cover the board : Sweet Release and Life Tap give you lots after kill. Sustenance keeps you topped up - great for DoTs or getting above health gate - but it’s very slow. Elated keeps you up in between. So I spread the points between Elated and Sustenance.
With SS, you generally are killing so fast and getting so much SR and LT that Elated becomes almost pointless though.
3 Likes
The two high damage all purpose Maya builds are pretty similar and both are very effective… one is a Subsequence/Binder build of which the best example is probably here
The other is a Leg Siren based build involving Scorn/Life Tap… the best example is probably Derch’s Twisted Pimp videos
With a Leg Siren COM you don’t need Quicken… both builds also work well with the Cat COM too though obviously Quicken is better for a Cat COM build
Edit: there’s other examples of Leg Siren and Leg Binder builds but I just gave one really strong example of each
3 Likes
I suppose we should link the skill guide too
4 Likes
Helios has an initial splash AOE damage that will trigger a DOT (guaranteed) on anything in range (just occurred to me this means is very likely this component benefits from grenade damage multiplier - not very relevant since Maya can’t get any outside BAR EDIT: it DOESN’T benefit from grenade damage bonus).
While it is true that this splash explosion (and the first DOT tick) does happen BEFORE ruin adds slag , most of the Helios damage comes from the DOT, and most of the DOT will benefit from ruin slag.
This mostly affects negatively sub-sequence builds (ex legendary binder) since if the targets sometimes can die too fast so Maya won’t have the time to slag them before phaselock applies … But if the targets die too fast …where is the problem ?
Keep in mind that if you really care about helios impact damage - all you need to do is tag the target once with your all maliwan parts slag sniper rifle (5/5 flicker will take the slag chance past 100% per hit vs on level enemies, it also needs a tiny bit of help from the BAR chance to apply elemental effect ~10%) BEFORE engaging phaselock …
Of course - since Maya does have this simple 100% chance to slag option, what is the value of ruin ? It can have value in UVHM in sub sequence builds (and even there as backup, since slaging/tagging the mobs before starting the chain usually more efficient) , and in OP levels where the (all)maliwan SR won’t have 100% chance to apply slag anymore due to the level difference, where ruin slag remains certain.
lol nah i haven’t i’m planning to though just farming for good weapons and gear for the op levels at the moment
Maybe I will … It just takes forever leveling up in borderlands 2 … My chars are currently between 70 and 75 …
I would argue that in my UVHM experience even helios 10/5 isn’t really that effective except vs ( preferably slagged ) fleshy small fries … Math wise it would be foolish to expect much from it during OP levels …
I’m just saying ruin isn’t / shouldn’t really be that high priority during the level period (UVHM) and this allows more flexibility in leveling builds … Of course you get to take it … eventually when the prerequisites are in place … just no need to beeline for it …
Since when is not being a borderlands 2 14+ years veteran a crime on the gbx forums ?
Operative words being “my UVHM experience”, as in not everyone has the same experience and it’s difficult to speak definitively about things without going the full distance.
I would beg to differ on this point. My pre Lilith DLC 72/OP7 siren ran a binder/subsequence build and reliably saw even Loaders go down to repeated Helios (and Ruin. Credit where it’s due) procs. Helios is not overwhelmingly awesome without a Binder com, Converge, and Subsequence, but with the proper build and gear it is an incendiary wrecking ball. (OP10 may change things, and this could be inaccurate with that level of damage reduction, let me know) And either way it is a matter of personal preference, I only recommend speccing in or out of it after you’ve tried it yourself under all possible conditions and seen the results first hand. Respecs are cheap, experience is priceless.
I’ve got way less than 14 years experience, but I also don’t present my opinions as facts, certainly not without pointing out that other folks have more comprehensive knowledge than I do.
5 Likes
I find this extremely hard to believe. You’re certain you didn’t have cloudkill specced when experiencing these things? Junkyard loaders have * 0.1 multiplier from fire damage on UVHM !! (ruin won’t trigger cloudkill on its own - but gun fire / chain reaction / kinetic reflection / etc could trigger cloudkill on your phaselocked target )
Ruin has a corrosive DOT, but its weak, it doesn’t scratch UVHM loaders either.
Try 10/5 helios without cloudkill and see you it struggles even vs act 1 bullymongs (even with ruin slag).
I’ll try to describe/explain what the ocean of numbers show:
I took a lvl 70 Junk Loader (~ 21.5 Million hitpoints) in phaselock using this build with legendary binder COM and corrosive bone.
Held him without firing until all the relevant events happened (10/5 helios initial Fire explosion (without slag) 24.930 fire damage ; combat log timestamp 947875 (last column)
helios fire dot starts 1830 fire damage, combat log timestamp 948203
ruin impact damage 99.722 (twice) melee non-elemental damage, combat log timestamp 948375
ruin slag effect application, combat log timestamp 948843
helios dot (and everything else profits from slag) 5.464 fire damage per dot tick, combat log timestamp first tick 948859
ruin electric DOT starts ~47.548 electric damage per DOT tick, combat log timestamp first tick 950156
ruin corrosive DOT starts ~ 112.722 corrosive damage per DOT tick, combat log timestamp first tick 951171
Let them tick for a while and notice the hitbar of the junk loader dancing near the max (no effect …).
Fire 1 Sniper Round to trigger Cloudkill. Timestamp 953343
The junk Loader melts from near full to ZERO in 8 Cloudkill damage ticks (in 1.75 seconds see timestamp difference bellow) … 2.747.548 corrosive Damage per cloudkill tick, time stamp first cloudkill tick 953593
Junk loader Expiration timestamp 955343 .
(955343 - 953593 ) / 1000 = 1.75 seconds it took cloudkill to kill the phaselocked loader. Helios and ruin would’ve expired with no visible effect damage wise …
combat log output
# Damage Type = FIRE ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 249305.67187500
22266 21544946.000 Max 21520016.000 Cur 21544946.000 Prev 24930.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 947875
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 15.0000 * 1.0000 * 9001.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 1350.1500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 18302.56445313
328 21544946.000 Max 21543116.000 Cur 21544946.000 Prev 1830.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948203
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 99722.26562500
172 21544946.000 Max 21445224.000 Cur 21544946.000 Prev 99722.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948375
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 99722.26562500
0 27973108.000 Max 27873386.000 Cur 27973108.000 Prev 99722.000 Damage 17AC0DD8 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948375
# Melee Damage Done By Player; Player's Melee Additive(sum) Damage Multiplier = 0.00000;
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 18377.63867188
156 21544946.000 Max 21468858.000 Cur 21470696.000 Prev 1838.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948531
# Damage Type = SLAG ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 41550.94531250
312 21544946.000 Max 21478000.000 Cur 21519550.000 Prev 41550.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948843
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 9001.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 2700.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 54638.28125000
16 21544946.000 Max 21475204.000 Cur 21480668.000 Prev 5464.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 948859
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 53452.05468750
312 21544946.000 Max 21523934.000 Cur 21529280.000 Prev 5346.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 949171
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 54846.03125000
344 21544946.000 Max 21539462.000 Cur 21544946.000 Prev 5484.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 949515
# Damage Type = ELECTRIC ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 124652.83593750
328 21544946.000 Max 21420294.000 Cur 21544946.000 Prev 124652.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 949843
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 15.0000 * 1.0000 * 9001.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 1350.1500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 53660.14062500
16 21544946.000 Max 21414928.000 Cur 21420294.000 Prev 5366.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 949859
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 47547.67187500
297 21544946.000 Max 21420022.000 Cur 21467570.000 Prev 47548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950156
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 54357.93750000
15 21544946.000 Max 21417254.000 Cur 21422690.000 Prev 5436.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950171
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 53395.75000000
329 21544946.000 Max 21465506.000 Cur 21470846.000 Prev 5340.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 48986.02343750
0 21544946.000 Max 21416520.000 Cur 21465506.000 Prev 48986.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 48402.21484375
328 21544946.000 Max 21422026.000 Cur 21470428.000 Prev 48402.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950828
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 163544.53125000
15 21544946.000 Max 21138492.000 Cur 21424694.000 Prev 286202.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950843
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 9001.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 2700.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 55319.30859375
16 21544946.000 Max 21132960.000 Cur 21138492.000 Prev 5532.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 950859
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 48275.72656250
297 21544946.000 Max 21136458.000 Cur 21184734.000 Prev 48276.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951156
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 55177.05468750
15 21544946.000 Max 21133608.000 Cur 21139126.000 Prev 5518.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951171
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64412.07812500
0 21544946.000 Max 21020886.000 Cur 21133608.000 Prev 112722.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951171
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 48055.02343750
313 21544946.000 Max 21024492.000 Cur 21072548.000 Prev 48056.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951484
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 54928.74609375
16 21544946.000 Max 21021668.000 Cur 21027160.000 Prev 5492.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64122.49218750
0 21544946.000 Max 20909454.000 Cur 21021668.000 Prev 112214.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 47992.29687500
312 21544946.000 Max 20913308.000 Cur 20961300.000 Prev 47992.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951812
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 54858.14843750
16 21544946.000 Max 20910490.000 Cur 20915976.000 Prev 5486.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951828
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 2844.14111328
15 21544946.000 Max 20907646.000 Cur 20910490.000 Prev 2844.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951843
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64040.16406250
0 21544946.000 Max 20795576.000 Cur 20907646.000 Prev 112070.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 951843
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 53315.21093750
297 21544946.000 Max 20843236.000 Cur 20848568.000 Prev 5332.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952140
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 62240.75390625
16 21544946.000 Max 20734314.000 Cur 20843236.000 Prev 108922.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952156
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 55202.60156250
328 21544946.000 Max 20785334.000 Cur 20790854.000 Prev 5520.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952484
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64441.87500000
16 21544946.000 Max 20672560.000 Cur 20785334.000 Prev 112774.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952500
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 55210.98437500
312 21544946.000 Max 20721636.000 Cur 20727158.000 Prev 5522.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952812
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64451.65625000
16 21544946.000 Max 20608846.000 Cur 20721636.000 Prev 112790.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952828
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.10; Intermediary Damage Value 7998.46142578
31 21544946.000 Max 20613890.000 Cur 20614690.000 Prev 800.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 952859
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 63640.34375000
281 21544946.000 Max 20550544.000 Cur 20661914.000 Prev 111370.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953140
# Normal Hit = 44021.72656; using Snider; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 23282.03906 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier 0.89080 (beware AMP SHIELD)
# Damage Type = SLAG ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.50; Intermediary Damage Value 237717.32812500
203 21544946.000 Max 20463704.000 Cur 20582562.000 Prev 118858.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953343
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 96.00000000
0 21544946.000 Max 20463536.000 Cur 20463704.000 Prev 168.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953343
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 2.5231 * 1.5000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 1.1354
# Damage Type = SLAG ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.50; Intermediary Damage Value 118858.66406250
32 21544946.000 Max 20404106.000 Cur 20463536.000 Prev 59430.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953375
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 3.7847 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 1.1354
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 61962.17578125
93 21544946.000 Max 20316756.000 Cur 20425190.000 Prev 108434.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953468
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
125 21544946.000 Max 17590552.000 Cur 20338100.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953593
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 64190.28515625
219 21544946.000 Max 17513436.000 Cur 17625770.000 Prev 112334.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953812
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
31 21544946.000 Max 14771224.000 Cur 17518772.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 953843
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
250 21544946.000 Max 12065607.000 Cur 14813155.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954093
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 62540.68750000
47 21544946.000 Max 11962036.000 Cur 12071482.000 Prev 109446.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954140
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
203 21544946.000 Max 9250251.000 Cur 11997799.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954343
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 62995.60546875
125 21544946.000 Max 9159256.000 Cur 9269498.000 Prev 110242.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954468
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
125 21544946.000 Max 6433061.000 Cur 9180609.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954593
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 62229.55468750
188 21544946.000 Max 6356734.000 Cur 6465635.500 Prev 108901.500 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954781
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
78 21544946.000 Max 3619862.000 Cur 6367410.000 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 954859
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
234 21544946.000 Max 913022.750 Cur 3660570.750 Prev 2747548.000 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 955093
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.3000
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 63121.88671875
32 21544946.000 Max 805228.313 Cur 915691.625 Prev 110463.313 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 955125
# Damage Type = CORROSIVE ; ElementalMul = 1.31200; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 14151C18
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 1570027.50000000
218 21544946.000 Max 0.000 Cur 843935.375 Prev 843935.375 Damage 22D58498 baseaddress JNK Loader vsHealthOrArmor 955343 I do keep 10/5 helios as I’m currently leveling Maya from 70 in badlands and it has some effect vs the lesser skags but I doubt the skill would still be worth the points going into OP levels… (its damage is locked while enemy HP/regen keeps ballooning )
1 Like
Speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective: if you want to go up the Cataclysm tree, you have to put a certain minimum number of points in each tier.
- Flicker/Foresight - I’ll usually go Foresight, although I might split that if I have an appropriate COM for 1 point to gain the bonus. Sure, 6/5 Flicker isn’t a huge deal, but as @Derch notes the DoT damage does help with healing via Moxxi weapons and/or Life Tap.
- Immolate/Helios - easy choice in NVHM/TVHM, gets weird in UVHM. But you have to spend 5 points here regardless of where you put them. The usual argument is that Helios does nada but Immolate is a FFYL skill and the goal should be to avoid FFYL. But Immolate also boosts slag damage (much more useful in UVHM than lower modes) and Helios synergizes well with Sub Sequence and Life Tap.
- Cloud kill is now OP and at 1 point is a no-brainer
- Chain Reaction is awesome sauce; Backdraft requires an all-in approach in OP levels to work
- Blight Phoenix is another skill that does not scale well in UVHM and above, but Reaper is a solid alternative. However, to get Ruin you either need to take BP or put those points into Flicker and/or Immolate.
- Ruin is an awesome tool for mobbing, especially with Converge. And more especially in co-op, since it means your partners don’t have to weapon-swap for slagging as often and can use their grenade slot for something more deadly. I’d also point out that the best use of Ruin is not to take down the phase-locked target, but to make it easier to take down those around it - extremely potent with Wreck on deck.
1 Like
14+ year in age, I assume? Can’t have 14 years of experience in a 7 year old game.
Also, you really should play in the OP levels before coming with maths.
3 Likes
I’m certain I did spend that point, but I’ve cleared sections of Opportunity without firing a shot, so cloudkill doesn’t really figure into my experience.
4 Likes
Exaggeration …didn’t think the game’s precise age to the decimal (did it have early access? etc) was that relevant … That point was this a really old game and some people have played it for a long time … others for a couple of months …
1 Like
I’m certain you’re aware there are ways to trigger cloud kill without firing shots …
Well, I might eventually get there some day if you guys don’t squeeze out the last drop of my enthusiasm for this game … Counterpoint is the game mechanics / skill mechanics don’t chance in OP levels … The code/math that runs the game is 99% the same in OP levels …
1 Like
Other than Kinetic Reflection which I wasn’t specced into at the time and requires a kill to proc, or an antagonist which she doesn’t carry, I can’t think of any.
Except for the damage reduction. Either way, math isn’t the proper way to experience a game. It’s good for explaining things after you know they need explaining, but you don’t play games on a whiteboard. Except for hangman and tic tac toe.
4 Likes
OK, this discussion is obviously going nowhere fast. The COMMUNITY GUIDELINES clearly state that disagreements should be handled by “provide[ing] reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.” The tone of posts keeps veering away from that into unwelcome territory and into personal attacks. This is not acceptable from anyone.
Thread closed until everyone has calmed down.