Remove/change the pvp lore challgenges

for example take the alani one, kill 25 times ambra
why not change it on a way that does not destroy all the fun by being forced to play pvp
something like:
kill (put in here name) x amount of times OR kill a certain boss x amount of times
cause fck pvp, pvp is the only thing i dont like with this game

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GBX already have plans to change it in the next patch update. 25 kills will be replaced with 5 kills or assists. You’ll still have to play pvp to get those kills, but it shouldn’t take too long

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thx for the reply, that they gonna change it is a relief

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Definitely. I haven’t even bothered attempting whisky foxtrot’s “kill Oscar Mike 25 times” challenge myself, because of how nonsensical it is. Personally, I think that putting the character lore behind challenges was a bad idea to begin with anyway

i really wish they still didnt force the whole pvp thing, because now its not 25 times but five or so times that i will be running around ignoring objectives and leaving pvp matches just trying to complete lore.

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Pretty sure the 25 kills will be changed to a smaller number of kills/assists. It will be a lot easier to get it just by playing without making a massive dedicated effort

Well, I don´t think so. Since assists count as well you don´t have to chase as bad as for a kill. The main issue of “killstealing” and most other bad sideeffects get reduced alot by letting assists count.
I main PvE and dislike some things around PvP as well, but to leave down your team for lore just seems wrong, no matter how many kills you need.

Everyone complains about forced pvp but why does no complain about forced pve?
Attikus has 2 lore that must be done on pve.
Anyone who has a kill x amount a jennerit. Takes ages with only pvp thorns kill 1000 I could play 100 matches of meltdown and still be miles away.
Melka kill 100 varelsi
El dra
Rath
Deande all have a only pve lore challenge.

Yeah, I wonder that too (though I love PvE, so its not my personal opinion).

I think Attikus & Kleese have the hardest PvE-challanges. I doubt I´ll ever master Kleese, its not my thing…

Well with the pve lore challenges you can do them on private mode solo at your own pace granted some of them are pretty grindy. With the pvp lore challenges theres potentially 10 people that i can affect/ruin their experience.

If im going for ambra kill/assist lore challenges and there is no ambra on the other team i am not going to sit through a 30+ minute match that i dont enjoy. So as bad as it sounds im going to leave the match and that leaves my team at a disadvantage playing a 4 vs 5 match. Granted this could all be solved by allowing bot matches to count towards lore but they have been pretty clear about their stance about that…

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Lol, at CR 100, Kleese is the only one I HAVE mastered. Starting to close in on some others, though.

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Because the PvP achievements are way harder and, because it’s PvP with its massive variation in player skill, the time investment is less predictable and often longer while the targetability (choosing X option to speed up progression) is much lower.

For one of his lores, the PvE requirement is simply completing 2 missions, with no requirement for difficulty or private/public. For the other, it’s using his alternate attack on the final boss of one of those missions and getting a crit 12 times. Solo story mode runs are cakewalks and, if you’re just doing the run to get credit, you can get the 12 crits without much problem.

[quote]Anyone who has a kill x amount a jennerit. Takes ages with only pvp thorns kill 1000 I could
play 100 matches of meltdown and still be miles away.[/quote]

Caldarius has to kill 750 Jennerit. There are missions where pretty much all you fight are Jennerit (Renegade) and spawn them like crazy. The last time I did Renegade, I got 450 kills as part of a 3 person group; the other 2 got 300 kills between them. Maybe 50 of those weren’t Jennerit (the swarmers at the start). Do it solo and you can expect 2 runs to get all of those Jennerit kills. It seems like a lot but when you consider how many kills you get per run, it’s pretty trivial.

Galilea has to kill 100 Jennerit while under the effects of Corruption. If you don’t actively stop yourself from getting corruption, you’ll hit that in pretty much any mission in which you fight Jennerit if you solo it.

Thorn has to get 1000 Jennerit kills. She’s going to get at least 100 from her Archive challenge (more if she farms the infinitely spawning Thralls during the escort portion). 2-3 additional runs of Renegade and she’s done.

Void’s Edge has an almost obscene number of varelsi that spawn. If you do it solo, you don’t have to worry about your allies killing enemies before you, so you can kill them however you want (meaning you can get them low and then leave them alone until Claw Lunge refreshes over and over).

If you really want to do it lolmode, you can do Archive and, on the last boss, ignore the turrets and just Claw Lunge the infinitely spawning Varelsi minions until you’re done.

Ghalt is similar with 100 Jennerit kills with a specific ability. Renegade solo makes it trivial.

Killing blow on the final boss of Algorithm. You get that automatically if you do it solo…

See Attikus. For the Jennerit kills, a single Renegade run. For the damage to Rendain, a single Heliophage (do it solo and you can just hit him with it then run away). Done.

10k damage to Rendain. Solo a couple Heliophage runs on story mode and you’ll get it.

Probably the hardest PvE challenge if you’re not used to it belongs to Thorn; she has to complete Archive on advanced without using any lives (e.g. hardcore). Still, it’s a minimum of one match and, if you’re really having problems, you can bring in a friend to play a Miko who just plays healbot.

Kleese has to play on every map at least once. Because you can do it solo and private to get credit, you can choose each map as you please. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even require you complete the mission so you can just start it up, fail the mission by suiciding, and then go on your merry way. For the PvP maps, you have to pray that at least 5 of the other 9 people you’re playing with, 5 of which you can’t speak to, are willing to go with a specific map; because there are specific maps that are pretty much universal favorites, it’s a bitch and a half to get the PvP maps. Also, because they’re PvP games with 9 other people involved, you can’t just fail them immediately and get credit; leaving early denies you credit and locks you out from PvP until the match ends. You literally have to stick out the entire game.

At worst, I think that’s 2 Heliophage solo private runs for any PvE challenge. Attikus has it the worst, but, seriously, it’s not that bad.

Now let’s compare that to the PvP challenges…

First off, I’ll bring up collusion. It’s possible to take care of a lot of the PvP challenges if you have a friend and organize it such that your friend is on the other side of a random. The problem with this, of course, if anyone on either team disagrees with your tactics, they can easily screw things up for you by actively interfering with your efforts (stealing kills). It also requires a lot of luck; when I did this for the Alani lore challenge, my friend and I spent 30 minutes trying to get on the opposite sides of a random PvP match. A number of times we got put into completely separate games, which meant we had to wait for that match to end before we could attempt it again. Collusion makes a lot of these PvP challenges easier and, often, single match, but the system and community do not make it easy.

Attikus has to do one match on Echelon. Once again, you’re relying upon the kindness and cooperation of at least 5 of 9 random people, 5 of which you can’t speak to, to get you in there.

Benedict has to get 50 player kills while airborne. In a good PvP match, I’ve seen excellent players get upwards of 20. On average, it’s closer to 10, if the match goes the distance. If you’re up against a well coordinated/skilled team, you can expect that to be even lower.

Similarly, Thorn has to get 20 player kills… with a specific skill… while airborne… without being able to fly. Yeah, that’s gonna take a while.

El Dragon has to get 50 player kills while under the effects of his ultimate. He can’t even attempt to get credit on that until he hits level 5. Many PvP matches end without most players getting to 10 so you’re liable to only have a few minutes to actually work on the achievement.

Toby has to kill 2 players in a single use with his ultimate 10 times. People have remarked on the ludicrousness of this more times that I care to count. Enough said.

Miko has to get 50 assists. Not as bad as getting kills, especially since you can play healbot and still be useful to the group, but it’s still gonna take 2-3 games to get that many. More if you keep running into good teams or being teamed up with idiots.

Ghalt has to get 25 hook hits on players; pretty trivial. Shane also has this one with Fetch. Ghalt, however, also has to get First Blood 10 times. That’s a minimum of 10 games and, unless you’re amazing at getting those kills, you’re boned.

Kelvin has to stun 3 players with a single Sublimate 25 times. If you manage to get into a game when your opponents are nice and stacked up, it can take 1 or 2 matches. If the enemy group realizes that there’s a Kelvin on the other team, they’re gonna scatter to prevent you from stunning a majority of their team all at once, so it can take a lot more than that 1 or 2.

Alani, Galilea, and Whiskey all have to get 25 kills on a specific character. Alani and Galilea share the same target, who isn’t really a popular option, and, when she is picked, a lot of those Ambra players know that they’re going to have an Alani/Galilea suicidally trying to get kills against them and use that to their advantage (also, Ambra is annoying as hell to kill because of that damned shield she gets when she gets low).

In addition to the 25 kills on Oscar Mike, Whiskey also has to get 150 crits against players (who move around all the time and a few of them have really counterintuitive crit locations) and stick a grenade on 50 players.

So, yeah. The PvP challenges take a hell of a lot longer to do that the PvE challenges. Even the worst PvE challenges can be done in a few games, while solo, privately. Without player collusion, you can expect at least 10 games, quite possibly many more in a lot of those cases, of PvP.

The comparison is laughable.

The PvE exclusive challenges can be done in an hour or so. The PvP challenges often require a long term commitment to PvP to make any kind of progress. I played 39 matches with Alani (finishing all of them) before the Alani nerfs and only got 8 Ambra kills (I think I saw her 3 times? Once was in a 5 man premade that tactically exploited my suicidal tendencies so much; I also had allies that were purposefully killstealing Ambra because they were jackasses). I hate PvP but I forced myself to play about 20 hours of it to try and get the the lore done; I stopped when I got there because I just didn’t have it in me to force myself to play 40 more hours (I finally got it by working with a friend; we each played Ambra as a sacrifice to the others’ Alani to fulfill the challenge).

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Wow long ass text i wasnt complaining they were hard or complaining at all just saying they are both pve and pvp only lore challenges.
If i knew people would bite my head off for stating this i wouldnt of bothered.
Its not like you even need to get 100 percent to have fun anyway but i guess the days where people played for fun have gone and now people just want to get 100 percent they move on to another game they dont enjoy.

[quote=“puunchbag193, post:13, topic:1539821, full:true”]but i guess the days where people played for fun have gone
[/quote]

Of course everyone plays to have fun. We’re not paid to play the game so we don’t really have much motivation to do it if we’re not having fun. What seems to escape you (and many others who try to call out people for “not having fun”) is that different people enjoy different things.

Many PvE players absolutely love lore, collecting things, and completion. The lore challenges are all of these things, rolled up together. In fact, other than the rather minimalist story and dropped legendaries, they are pretty much all that this game has for those things.

The reason why I reacted so strongly is because there are so many PvPers I’ve met that lament having to run 1-2 missions in order to get a legendary that’ll help them a bit in PvP (of course, many PvPers run with non-legendaries so legendaries are much less of a concern for them). They completely ignore the fact that PvEers will often have to spend copious amounts of time and effort to get a legendary that is often extremely good for them (and many PvEers run legendary heavy loadouts).

I’m not saying that PvPers don’t have a grievance with being forced to do PvE to get their lore legendary. I’m saying that difference between the amount of unwanted content you’re forced to do is so massive that acting as if they’re remotely equal is either exaggerating your own issues or treating our issues as if they were insignificant.

Also, having a problem with something isn’t the same as hating it. Most every single game I have ever played and loved, I have voiced complaints about things. If you see something that can/should be improved, there’s a cultural obligation to voice those complaints/concerns, otherwise they’ll never get fixed/addressed. Disliking certain elements of a game doesn’t mean that I hate the entire thing.

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@Kitru, you’re my hero

Gearbox, if you haven’t, you need to take the time to read both of Kitru’s posts here. The time involved for players who aren’t interested/aren’t skilled in PvP to complete the harder PvP lore challenges is ridiculous, and it’s making a lot of players frustrated.

Ok, so you lowered the kill amounts and added in assists for the 3 specific player kill challenges - did you completely miss that some (most?) players don’t see an Ambra for more than 10 matches at a time? I’ve had instances where I haven’t seen an Ambra for more than 30 matches. Am I really supposed to play just one character for 2-3 days in the HOPE that the one character I need is going to be chosen by the enemy team?

While the specific kill challenges annoy me, it’s the challenges for Ghalt, Thorn, and Toby which make me wonder why these were added at all. First, I’ll address what most consider to be the easiest: Thorn’s Volley kills. WHEN these count, and I say this having had other players witness me getting the kills without getting credit, the stacked condition of being airborne just adds even more frustration to a task which is ridiculously tedious in the first place. It’s one thing to require a skill for kills, but adding in the need to be airborne? Why not ask players to get the kills while enemies are under the center bridge on Paradise, while having the player 360 jump from one ramp over the turret to the other ramp, after leading a full group of minions to the grinder, using a fully charged shot, and landing a critical… That’s how ridiculous Thorn’s Volley kills feel to a lot of players who don’t live for PvP.

Ghalt’s First Blood kills - again, little or no skill? Then you have to pray you’re lucky enough to maybe get the last hit from another player who ignored the objectives and ran straight for enemy players to try and kill one. Missed your chance/died to larger numbers due to no support because your team played the objectives? There’s 20-35 minutes wasted until you get another chance; that feels punishing, not fun. In my case, let’s add in that I hate playing Ghalt (and Galilea, and WF, and Toby… hmmm, it’s like some of the worst characters have the hardest challenges - yeah, my opinion, but even being good with some of those characters doesn’t make this enjoyable). So now, I have a challenge with a incredibly small window and high skill requirement for success, and if I fail, which is likely considering I’m maybe average at PvP, I get to wait roughly 30 minutes before I can try again. Here’s how that feels: take a game you have been waiting months to play, now each time you go to play this game, it takes a minimum of 30 minutes for your pc/console to boot up. Not much fun? Then consider how annoying it is when what you’re trying to accomplish (the challenge) isn’t guaranteed.

And lastly, Toby - 100%, don’t need a second thought, the character I absolutely hate most in this game. I fully realize that’s my personal opinion, but if/when I finish his lore, I’ll never touch him again. Ok, mini-rant aside, he has the single hardest challenge in the game. Players could go 100 matches without completing this ONE challenge. I finished ALL of Boldur’s in two matches; that’s right, two. While the airborne condition on Thorn’s challenge is a pain in the ***, there are quite a few players who don’t live for PvP who consider this challenge impossible. I get fewer double kills than one every 15 (maybe 20) matches, but for this challenge, I need to count on getting two while also using one of the WORST ultimates in the game? Seriously, whose house did I burn down to deserve this? The rumored change to this challenge dropping it to just a single double kill with the ultimate doesn’t really change anything for a lot of us. “Oh, we only have win the lottery once now instead of twice?”

TL;DR
The skill and time required for PvP lore challenges is grossly imbalanced. Please get over whatever pride, trauma, tick, or anything else Gearbox is suffering from and allow PvE players the same courtesy of completing PvP lore challenges in private matches that PvP players enjoy by being able to complete PvE lore challenges in private matches. Whether or not Gearbox allows that change, please make meaningful changes to the PvP challenges for Ghalt, Thorn, and Toby - a reduced number helps, but only in the most minor, token attempt way.

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Hey, I keep hearing about this, but have never seen anything official on it. Are you able to direct me to the source?

Here is where Jythri mentions their plans to, in the short term, reduce the number of kills required. I believe that, during the Play w/ the Devs event, he said on his stream that they’d be reducing the number of kills (which will also include assists) down to 5, in addition to going over a massive number of other lore challenges. I’m too lazy to go find out exactly where in his stream he said it though.

Great, thanks!
That is definitely promising! ^^