Remove the Scaling!

Continuing the discussion from Absurd Scaling Per Mission in HW1:R?:

I agree, it totally messes with the original missions, instead of bulstering your fleets by salvaging other ships we have to kill everything now ? That’s not how the old HW1 was >.>.

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It probably should be tied to a difficulty option.

Easy: No Scaling
Normal: ~Half Current Scaling
Hard: Current Scaling
Elite: Twice current scaling

I had no trouble with scaling except for the first time I tried Higara with a max captured fleet (~100 ion frigates). I lost my MS to a suicide attack as I did not have my capital ships positioned right. Once I knew what to expect (a yolotarded rush) I had no trouble.

This is HW1 ported to the HW2 engine. LOTS has changed, for many reasons, generally technical or design-preferential. There are a wide range of things we did that won’t change - Mission Scaling is almost certainly one of them.

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And that is a literal Screw You to the old fan base, sorry but we shouldn’t be penalized for using and existing mechanic that was meant as a benificial way to grow the fleet without wasting resources that we had very little of.

Also this Scaling didn’t even start happening in HW1:R until the Last major patch, so ya you can do something about it, As MaxL_1023 said above, link it to a difficulty option, that alone would make the game atleast playable and enjoyable again.

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You need to remember that HW1C was a LOT harder than HW2 or Remastered. You got far fewer RUs - you had to stay and collect everything on the map and you still had to capture or barely lose anything to reach unit cap by the end of the campaign.

In Remastered you can stop harvesting after mission 8 and have basically infinite resources. DDs are so powerful that they can shrug off everything except HCs - you get enough resources to have all 6 of them before you leave the nebula.

Capturing ships is a lot easier - in Classic salvage corvettes were vulnerable to everything. An ion frigate would reliably kill one if you approached it from the front and an Assault Frigate would almost never miss. DDs and HCs would snipe salvagers before shooting your own capital ships.

Now, you can rush a HC head on with 8 corvettes and almost all the time 6 of them will latch on and capture it. In Mission 10 I just rushed 14 salvagers against the 2 DDs and HC and got all 3 of them without needing more than a couple scouts flying around to distract their terrible AI.

HW:RM needs the scaling or it is stupidly easy compared to classic. I don’t mind having the easy mode available but you have no right to complain - I have played enough campaign to know that the problem is not inside the game.

It is when you get to mission 5 and there are 20 frigates and 5 DDs, the balance is way off if the scaling is going to stay in that direction per mission.

It has to be to keep the game somewhat challenging, considering to get that you must have close to that size fleet yourself.

Why can’t it be an option?

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Probably because it’d double the amount of balance checking needed after changes like the formation experiments they’re trying.

OK! I know thi question has already been asked but I’m going to ask more directly. How many of the former moders played HOMEWORLD, not HW2 but HOMEWORLD :angry:

The campaign has some issues because things aren’t working properly right now. The next patch shall fix some of that.

Guys, you also need to remember this, too; The scaling already existed in Homeworld. It was a hard game.

The issue could be the use of HW2s damage mechanics. Ships kill each other a lot faster, so when scaling is used you end up fighting fleets of 50 frigates which can take even a cruiser out in seconds. Even if you have an equal sized fleet you end up having much less time to react and plan - a mistake is much more costly when you lose your fleet in a minute as opposed to 5.

What Max said is also very true.

The scaling may have existed, but if it did it was a lot more limited in scope. I’ve actually been digging through the available source for the code that handles it… haven’t found it yet.

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I remember hearing that scaling existed before Remastered came out. Take that with a grain of salt, though. I may be incorrect. I don’t know how to look into code to find out. My point above, though, was to say that the game was hard originally. It should be. It’s a tactical game.

I remember playing HW1 with an infinite RU trainer when I was a kid. With that kind of thing you could build 80 interceptors and 50 heavettes by mission 2. As a result there were a dozen or two assfrigs in mission 3.

So, yeah. Scaling was definitely there.

Enemy scaling as a concept is a good thing, it can keep an old game fresh for an experienced player and at the same time let an inexperienced player game at a level more appropriate to their ability.

The Problem we’ve currently got is a combination of two thing.

  1. An overall increase in the resources available per level to spend on ships.
  2. an enemy scaling designed for a game (HW2) with a considerably harder unit cap than this one.

At the moment We’ve just got the wrong scalar in place. :frowning:

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Yeah, it’s been my understanding for years that it’s there, I just can’t find the damn code that does it. :\

Oho, I think I finally found it. spFleetModifier gets set in singleplayer.c and used in levelload.c. Delicious. Still have to digest the code, but it looks like both enemies and available resources were scaled, which is a wrinkle I wasn’t aware of.

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Scaling may have been in the original, but not on This Scale, its in my opinion poorly balanced scaling if anything, taking 10 Ion Array Frigates against 20ish Assault Frigates + 5-6 Destroyers is pretty much suicidal when you want to capture them lolz, especially there Destroyers lolz.