Reporting: Broken before it even Launched

I’ve been trying to make this clear before, but it seems my words are falling on deaf ears. If you’re going to punish players for leaving a game, you need to FIX the options governing surrender FIRST. Spending at LEAST six more minutes to realize what you’ve already seen before then, doing the same thing over and over is pointless and NOT fun.

Let’s talk brass tacks here. You didn’t make LoL in an FPS format. You made the equivalent of a longer form Arm Wrestling Contest. At the start, both sides are even. And in a well balanced match with competent players, it CAN teeter-totter back and forth between the sides. But at some point one side is going to gain enough of the advantages, to just not be able to lose. Level, Minion, Shard, Kills(which ISN’T the same as level) or Map, they will have enough that at best it is a slow grind down to defeat. The balance swings to them, and there’s no way to get it back.

If you start punishing players for leaving a game because they have to convince two other people that defeat is inevitable, players will be leaving in droves. I didn’t pay $60 for this game, so I could be the source of someone ELSE’S fun. Now, you probably are going to implement reporting instead of fixing surrender, and I tell you now, that will be the last I play of any Gearbox game. My love for Battleborn and Borderlands isn’t infinite, and I won’t pay for a game developer’s shortcomings. The second you screw with my enjoyment of the game, is the second you lose me as a customer.

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this is a tough one. obviously i strongly agree with anyone somehow cheating getting reported. but idk how i feel about reporting for people leaving games, even if it is a chronic thing. i have played a ton of solo games, and a ton of games in a premade. due to my solo experience, i dont really ever judge most people for leaving in queue when they see im in a premade, and i dont usually blame people for surrendering or quitting at any point. who wants to sit there and just get farmed in a match that is impossible just because a few guys on your team stand on some sort of principle to never quit no matter what.

i respect that attitude, but i dont really understand it

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I disagree, surrender shouldn’t be touched until they can fix matchmaking. With the pretty much nonexistent ELO status based matchmaking they have implemented (with hotfixes), it is essentially CoD matchmaking. Allowing for pub stomps all day every day. Because of this surrender needs not be changed at all.

And in the current state of the game, there is no even matched games. There is no teetering matches.

I for one would like the surrender option be returned to the original length of time between how often can be voted. I am a CR100 and I can pretty much tell if a match is unwinnable and is a waste of time. I have been wrong about 2% of the time in which I called for a vote yet the team woke up and will pulled a win. I do not have stats but in certain modes, once an opposing team reaches a certain score and difference there is no way to win. Capture even tells you that with even TWO caps you are still going to lose and if you are already losing with 2 caps, the chances are slim you will be able to cap 3 and hold to win. Even at this juncture people will still veto a surrender and with a 3 min wait, I will just stay in the spawn until the time finishes. I hvae to laugh when those same people who vetoed start firing at me. Really? You want to farm or do whatever, go ahead. I wish I could dump the match but with such a terrible leave penalty, I am forced to wait the unavoidable.

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I disagree. I’ve had many late game comebacks, especially when using late game characters like Atty. I think there is only one time to surrender, if the other team absolutely crushes you in every way. If you’re losing but putting up a fight, keep fighting. I truly believe that winning is a minor point of a match. I highly enjoy playing more than winning. I think placing the perfect ice wall as Kelvin on an escaping victim is way more satisfying than any win.

For example, before they patched Overgrowth, how much fun do you think it actually was to be a Marquis who would just cheese the sentry? Great you won by sitting in one spot shooting the same target.

Winning is second to playing the game and it’s characters to me. Again I do think there are points where you’re being slaughtered as a team and you feel you can’t actually play, there’s a worthy surrender. But surrendering when you’re just losing is just giving up imo

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Considering this game doesn’t have the SMITE or LOL fan base, shoot it isn’t even close. This isn’t a good thing to implement honestly. You shouldn’t remove players in an already dying game… lol and smite has those leisure’s because their player base are in the millions.

And they didn’t have that feature in the beginning of the games release… why? Because its best to build a player base before trying to remove your players. removing 10+ players a day will be the death of this game ijs

Although Im seeing ALOT of new players join this game. Im rarely finding lvl100s in the games im playing now. The vets are leaving and that isn’t good.

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The problem is people vote to surrender at the first sign of losing. I’ve been down 100-7 in terms of Sentry health with 6 minutes to play. We came back and won. I never think defeat is “inevitable” because there is always possibilities of coming back. I’ve experienced it far too many times.

If you leave a game because your surrender vote failed, you shouldn’t be allowed to play.

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And that’s exactly the problem. You can’t FORCE a surrender. If two or more players vote or ignore the surrender, you’re almost assuredly stuck. But with this new system, those players gain even MORE power to drag out a bad match.

I don’t mind losing a match where both sides are trading blows. But a lot of times, people take a new hero into PvP, with no idea how to make a proper fight with them, and go 0/12 in the first six minutes, dooming the team unless the other side ALSO has someone hyper-feeding.

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So the players that want to play the game they queued for are at fault for wanting to play the game all because you no longer want to play in that very game for whatever reason? (in your case it’s losing a match but there could be other reasons).

That’s crap, and besides… Most of the matches I have players that want to surrender at all are the ones doing the worst in the games. Probably the case here, instead of surrendering, use the match to improve and learn, you may just surprise yourself.

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I had quite a few “unbalanced” matches last night and I still roflstomped, getting my team to the enemies sentry all day and ended one match 16 and 2, losing 83-100. We never got any damage but if I can cause my team any advantage on my own, thats a win in my book and shows my development. You shouldnt poopoo on losing games, if youre not losing then youre not learning and thats all part of the game. Someone has to be the pinata and unfortunately, no one can handle that lol

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Peoples are already surrendering too much. Of the 3 times I had a 4vs5 yesterday, 3 times we kept playing, we won twice, and the last time we lost from the 30 minutes ’ timer mark ending the game, so definitely not crushed.
And that’s only talking about the 4vs5’s case.
Peoples surrender far too fast. Most of them don’t seem to realize that some battleborn are better late game whereas other are good early game. If I play as Reyna as the only support for my team, I know very well that my level 4-5 are game-changers for my team. So I don’t care about being dominated at the beginning. it can change later on.

I’ve seen people surrendering at the 6 minute mark with like 92-90 in incursion and a slight difference in kills. What the HELL?

Just to say, players cannot get better with only “winning battles”. When everything goes well, you’re probably dominating level wise, skill wise to begin with. You’re not striving to do anything.
By fighting “losing battles” where you need to do your best to overcome the difference with the opposite team (losing to score, or outnumbered, and so on) you will gain far more playing experience than by surrendering right away.
WIth that rematch option, you often play with the same peoples several times as long as you win. I’ve seen peoples happily crushing the enemy, and then at the first time we were not doing well at the beginning “omg let’s surrender” right away.
O M G but stop that already.
Be a nasty player that don’t surrender. Not just a mere battleborn, but a battlestubborn. Be proud of every single of your kill when you’re outnumbered and don’t forget to taunt them when it’s safe, too. you downed their first sentry? Your team eliminated most of the enemies? Hah! serves them right!

You know, there’s nothing better than a good 4vs5 battle (even lost at the end) to make new gaming friends in BB. Because that feels good every time one of your teammate is doing great despite the odds. Because everyone felt really nice about battling all long, together, and making the opposite team’s life as hard as possible, punishing every single cocky player who thought that it would be easy to kill the opponent at 4vs5 and overextended too much.

This is from experience. I’ve also seen a team starting a game at 4 vs5, then after a while the 5th player actually reconnected (so he didn’t actually leave intentionally), and it’s on the opposite side that a player disconnected (this time for good), transforming a 4vs5 in a 5vs4. Everything can happen as long as you don’t surrender.

So don’t surrender. And don’t forget to have fun. Because yes, you can lsoe and have fun. You’ll a far higher feeling of accomplishment every time your team does something good in those cases, and feel far better about a come back and a win when you were dominated most of the time. They dominated and they lost? hah, sucks to be them.

So , new players, welcome aboard, and don’t be like them. Break as much teeth as possible before the end of each games. Leavers, remember that a game is not lost before the end of it. Not even if you think it’s obvious.

I think GBX should make the surrender need at the very least 4 votes for it if not 5 in order to pass. You want to leave? Fine, I don’t care. I’m having them aaaall die in a fire anyway.You want to leave? Fine, I don’t care. I’m having them aaaall die in a fire anyway.

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I’ve had way too many big pushes to win a match in BB. Waaaayy too many comebacks.

I’ve also had many games where someone left and we pushed far enough to almost win and would have if the person hadn’t left the match.

People give up too soon. There is no indication even after 25 minutes that you cannot win. I’ve lost and won games in the last 10 seconds. Stick with it. It is very possible.

This new reporting system may get abused at first but I hope people mainly use it for cheaters and directly rude or vulgar players.

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Again, I don’t mind losing where the MATCH is fun. But I’ve talked about this before. KNOW the character you’re going to play BEFORE you take them into PvP. Too many people watch Rath or Phoebe videos on Youtube, and think they can do the same with no understanding of the character. And surprise surprise, going Rath against say…GALILEA doesn’t equal a win when she shuts off your lifesteal.

That’s the root cause of all this nonsense. I have a friend who often mentions how they’ve mastered one or two heroes. And I constantly respond, “And how many matches have you played with the others?” I haven’t mastered a single hero, because I try to play as many as I can. I’ve leveled with every hero, I’ve done the work with their mutations in PvE, and I am learning how to spot each hero’s tell when they’re about to pull a game changer in PvP. Take Deande for instance. As long as she’s moving, she’s a moderate threat. But if she stands dead still when you’re close, you’re in extreme danger from her ult, because she can’t move while lining up the shot. Dash out, stun her out, or call for the healer and hope they can get to you before she finishes.

But too many people aren’t putting in the work, except to step right into the ring and get faceplanted when they have no idea what they’re doing. It’s people who see Alani or Ambra videos before their nerfs, and try to steamroll DPS with a support. Or people who tank Galilea and try to turn her into some kind of super self healer with a combat build.

If I was teaching a class on Battleborn, I wouldn’t mind. If there was a queue where say older players were queuing up to TEACH new players, hey, that’s great. At least then I know they’re listening. But this random PUG nonsense where people overfeed the enemy and then refuse to surrender…it’s boring. There’s just no other way to say it. Watching someone farm-die back and forth, over and over, knowing they’re doing more to help the OTHER team than us, is just dumb and boring. And I want no part of it. If that’s the kind of community Battleborn wants to be, then it is for the best that I give the game up. Because losing a tough fight, where everyone’s putting out their best effort, is great. Losing a fight cause someone can’t get through their head that solo-tanking as an assassin, or going melee-close fighting as a ranged character that ISN’T Mellka, Caldarius or Orendi, is just sad.

Rath isn’t a very good example though. He’s easily shut down unless the team he has sets it up nicely. I’d suggest he needs a survivability buff, due to his lack of fight contribution without a team, but since that is his only bad spot it’s probably perfect since characters should shine with the right team. That’s a great way to balance in my opinion.

I’d also say your expectations of other players seems high. Yes they’re learning a new character or they’re learning a character in PvP. I build my PvP characters drastically different than my PvE matches. Give them a chance to learn. Every failure is a lesson that either you should play them differently, or they just aren’t your kind of character

JJ, I’m not saying come to the PvP game with a completed build, perfect gear, and an impeccable strategy.

But come to it with IDEAS at least. Ideas can work, as long as you keep trying different things. How different is it, when you run through the middile on Incursion time and time again, and get sniped out by Marquis because he isn’t letting you get close to his minions, because he KNOWS you’ll wreck them if you do? Or, how about when playing Marquis, that you learn NOT to shoot ISIC when he has his bullet/special move Reflecting Wards up? I’ve killed over a dozen Oscar Mikes with nothing but their own GRENADES because they bounce off that field, turn into my AoE damage and they stand IN the fire, cause they think it doesn’t hurt them.

I recently started picking up Attikus. I’d been playing since the PS4 beta, and till three days ago, I hadn’t touched him. Melees aren’t my specialty, and he’s the biggest model melee in game. I felt like I’d be wasting my time. Sure enough, my first match with him was rough. But I didn’t just keep banging my head against the wall. I RESISTED the temptation to just keep pouring in and overfeeding. Instead, I went Thrall Hunting, and I LEARNED how his game worked by fighting them. I’ve learned he still isn’t my cup of tea, but I didn’t go 0/12 or 1/15 LEARNING that fact. I was helping others, and trying to pounce/HC when I got the chance.

If you want to learn a new character in PvP, that’s fine. But don’t do it at the cost of the GAME. A lot of these blowout games, come from people who just don’t change their play. I think ISIC players may have it the worst. They get so used that fun Reflecting Wards bouncing shots back like crazy, that when they come up against a melee-dominant team, they don’t change anything…and get blown out of the water for it. RW won’t reflect melee damage, only bullets, bombs and beams. And for a single change of mutation at 2nd level, it dooms people. Instead of picking You Dropped These!, pick up This Might Sting :0, and all that pain you were giving ranged characters who focus on you, will be given to melees instead.

When I say know your character before you go into PvP, I mean know what their helix choices will do for you. Some characters can have an entirely different game based on their picks. ISIC can go from a battleship trading heavy fire at long range, to a slugging champ. Toby can zone, counter-snipe, or become quite the mad little suicide bomber no one dares approach. But if you go in just randomly picking things to see what they do, while not changing your strategy…

I play a few story missions before I play PvP with anyone. At least so I can learn the helix, and how a character feels.

A lot of players don’t like PvE though, so they only PvP. Therefore they have to get their experience from PvP.

Characters play differently in PvE and PvP. So even if someone has practiced in PvE, it doesn’t mean they will do well with that character in PvP.

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Again, at least do PvE, or even a botted PvP, to know what the Helix will do for you. Do it OUTSIDE the expectations of a PUG, and you get no complaints. There, you CAN concentrate on what choices you want to make and why.

Leaving a match, save for connectivity issues/ IRL emergencies, is nothing more than a short-sighted fix to a larger issue - there are instances where a loss is inevitable, sure, but therein lies a choice: do you allow the pangs of defeat to irk you so much that it ruins your gaming experience (and subsequently continue to leave to avoid feeling that way again), or do you keep fighting, understanding that just about every match is an opportunity to improve SOME facet of your game?

There are so many games that I feel like LBJ in the 2015 finals; recently played back-to-back games with 15+ kills, 130 minions, 260k dmg as Toby of all heroes, and still lost. Is it exhausting doing so much just to lose? Sure, but approaching losing games with an, “I’m better off leaving,” mentality only suppresses your growth as a player and puts 9 other players in a similar, stagnating position. This, of course, is without even mentioning that, in its current dtate, Battleborn win/loss means absolutely nothing considering the plethora of imbalances it possesses/possessed.

Is it your $60 right to leave? It most certainly is. But is it also other players’ $60 right to expect that their teammates won’t leave after a good push from the other team? Also yes. The argument goes both ways - so what then? We turn to one inextricably-linked aspect of any gamer’s experience that makes games enjoyable: one’s player skill.

And I can assure you, player skill isn’t developed with the toxic approach that many members of the community take.

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