Request to re-arrange the Helix a bit and one minor change/buff

Firstly I’d like to say I think he’s fine in terms of power-level if you have a team that actually makes it into a fair match i.e. extends the match and doesn’t get completely steamrolled. I realize this is an issue with matchmaking more so than Whiskey, but it could be subverted by a simple re-arrangement to make him a bit more viable early game. Now I realize he’s not Oscar Mike, but given some of the similarities I think it’s actually fair to compare the two on a few points. Mike gets burst damage right away giving him something to gain experience in the form of Impact Trigger (if you take it), but even outside that one second after impact is a far cry from having to wait out the full trigger of the Sticky Grenade. Now since I’m not asking for a buff per say I’ll leave the fuse alone on the Sticky Grenades and move onto that Oscar Mike gets Fragcendiary Grenades at Rank 2 while Whisky not only has to unlock the mutation for Napalm he has to wait until Rank 6. I’d argue that the only reason Napalm is so high is that by that point he can create multiple pools, but in and of itself it doesn’t seem like an issue considering Mike has the same thing at Rank 2 and Mike has the ability to create the pools without the delay on top of that so he’d still have that advantage. The next point I’d like to make is that the Mike gets the option between Damage, Damage at the cost of Radius, and Radius, to which I’d argue the Radius Mutation is akin to Whiskey’s Sticky MIRV or Triple Threat. Whiskey gets the combination of the two before Mike gets the option of creating larger pools of fire which is all fine and well, but at the same time Mike has a far easier time early in-game so the higher Level needed for Mike to get the combination is mostly moot. Now onto the Scrap Cannon, it’s all fine and well and a great tool for getting rid of Melee, but it doesn’t do much for him in the way of gaining experience and I’d also argue that it doesn’t do much in terms of killing either and that it’s really for utility which isn’t a bad thing, but unlike his counterpart Mike he has to sacrifice some utility for his Sticky Grenades to get the base utility for his Scrap Cannon.

So I’d like to suggest the following helix NOT to try to make him more like Oscar Mike or to buff him, but to change his pacing a tad so he can have more of impact early on and doesn’t rely on a long match to get his toolkit:

Level 1 Scrap Cannon Utility
Flak Off and Flak Back
Both skills would give some utility to the Scrap Cannon right away, both give some distance and currently from my experience Flak Back is up against a choice everybody seems to make being Napalm and doesn’t seem too terribly different from Flak Off save for the ability to use it as a ‘jump’, but considering it’s not going to get you out of a corner like Flak Off it seems like a fair trade.

Level 2 Sticky Grenade Modification
Weighed Down, Napalm, and Stick ‘N’ Sap
Napalm would still likely be the go to choice of most people, but considering how rarely I’ve seen Stick ‘N’ Sap it probably doesn’t matter that you put it against Napalm anyway, but with the Triple Threat or Sticky MIRV it might see some use for those confident in their Sticky Grenade ability and stacking the drain effect could make it more appealing instead of being a ‘dead’ augment all-together. Weighed Down is merely included because it make ‘sense’ as it provides a buff to the Grenade itself not the the delivery method.

Level 3 Sights
Red Dot Sight and Scoped Up
No change

Level 4 Scrap Modifcation
Swiss Cheese, Shield Scrapper, and Scrap Bank
I always found Shield Scrapper odd placed where it was, not saying it’ll be picked but makes much more sense to me to be with the Scrap Mods.

Level 5 On-kill Bonuses
Reload Burst, Killer Regen, and Speed Burst
No change

Level 6 Rifle Modification
Duct-Taped Mags, Shield Pen, and When Three Just Isn’t Enough
No change, just moved down a level.

Level 7 Sticky Grenade Delivery
Sticky Speed, Sticky MIRV, and Triple Threat
Sticky Speed is still probably dead, but each modify how the Sticky Grenade is fired and as mentioned before being able to stack the Drain effect might change the preference. It’s moved down as you get access to Napalm earlier which helps with Area of Effect killing for experience which makes him ‘better’ early game alternatively Sticky Drain at least does instant damage which serves the same purpose of giving him actual damage without a 3 second timer to get some experience.

Level 8 Scrap Range
Spread Shot and Long Distance Flak
No Change

Level 9 Sticky Grenade Buff
Swift Stickies and Stronger Stickies

Level 10 Overdrive Mod
What Shields? and OverOverdrive
No Change

Now the one minor change which certainly could be considered a buff, allow his Scrap Cannon to detonate Sticky Grenades. I could potentially see it getting out of hand, but given the range of the Scrap Cannon and the travel speed the range for premature detonation of moving targets shouldn’t be that large for the average player and expending Scrap for detonation takes away from it being used as an anti-melee tool making it a player decision how to use it, but gives the player another option.

1 Like

This touches on another issue, but I want to make it more clear.
Whiskey suffers from both “bad talents” and “mandatory talents”.

Bad talents include: Shield Scrapper, Speed Burst

Mandatory talents include: Killer Regen, Napalm

And then you have a handful of talents that overshadow their competitors:

  • Scrap Bank vs Swiss Cheese? Sure, I take Swiss Cheese sometimes out of principle, but I know that Scrap Bank is clearly better.
  • Sticky MIRV needs to not have a damage reduction to be in competition with Triple Threat.
  • I suppose it’s arguable, but I think that Spread Shot, Swift Stickies, and What Shields are clearly better.

His only two good talent tiers (fair choices, each worth considering) are level 7 (Duct-taped Mags, Shield Pen, and When Three Isn’t Enough) and Level 2 (scope vs red dot).

You could also argue that Stick n’ Sap is a situational talent to help deal with characters like Kleese or Shepherd-bots, but I think the triple threat with the napalm, etc is still the way to go.

To me Shield Scrapper is situationally “alright”, but it’s up against 2 mutations where it’s never going to be used on an “optimal” build. I take Weighed Down myself and would miss it with a re-arranging, but others seem to like Flak Off and Flakback so it’d appease I’m working on trying to re-arrange it in such a way to fit the form of the other Battleborn and taking the feedback of those complaining about him as is to get some of their mutations up against viable alternatives in a reasonable level location. Killer Regen isn’t “absolutely” mandatory, I’ve seen some long range Whiskey’s take both of the other options or at least they were talking about it how they took them. (I didn’t stalk them during the match to try to figure out what they were taking) I was also trying to keep the unlockable mutations as unlockable, if I full run of rearrangement i’d most certainly do it differently

As for the bullets
-Swiss Cheese gives a reveal which I find is more useful than the actual bonus damage if you have a coordinated team that can’t just deal with the model being a little harder to see in terms of self sufficiency Scrap Bank is better sure. I view them both as reasonably viably in that regard.

-Sticky MIRV is take and preferred by some in it’s current iteration, it should fix the aiming issues other than that it’s still taken over Triple Threat and doesn’t really need a change in that regard since it is taken.

-Swift Stickies I’d say are clearly better, Long-distance Flak however extends the effective range of a critical on the Scrap Cannon so I’d call that situational push even if I lean one way. As for What Shields vs Overoverdrive, I’d disagree there. What Shields is situational, but considering your abilities still hit shields and your teams also hit shields it becomes kind of moot in most cases where Overoverdrive guarantees that you’re adding benefit.

Level 3 is Scope and Red Dot not Level 2, Shield Pen’s % would need to be higher for me to consider it over When Three Isn’t Enough. Duct-taped Mags is situational, but still lacking IMO.

Stick n’ Sap with Triple Threat would make it easier to at least get one hit or for those who are proficient 3 stacked would boost the single hit damage quite a bit combined with the explosion damage. I’d still take Napalm, but I could see people taking Sticky Drain with Triple Threat to try to finish off weakened enemies not just for large shield users.

If I had my free run it’d prolly end up being:
Level 1
Sticky Speed - Weighed Down (need to be unlocked) - Scrap Bank

Level 2
Napalm - Sticky Drain

Level 3
Red Dot Sight - Scoped Up

Level 4
Flak Off - Flakback (need to be unlocked) - Shield Scrapper

Level 5
Reload Burst - Killer Regen (need to be unlocked) - Speed Burst

Level 6
Duct Taped Mags - Shield Pen (need to be unlocked) - When 3 Just Isn’t Enough

Level 7
Triple Threat - Sticky MIRV

Level 8
Spread Shot - Swiss Cheese (need to be unlocked)* - Long Distance Flak

Level 9
Swift Stickies - Stronger Stickies

Level 10
What Shields? - Overoverdrive

It’d fit with the pattern of the other born give fans of the Scrap Cannon their Scrap Bank right away, give him some wave clear early on to help him level, keep his Triple Threat Napalm build as a late game. Give people options with Flakback not being against Napalm and a spot.

*Allow it to stack with each hit from scrap bank cumulatively adding the debuff and fully refreshing the timer, which would let you fire Swiss Cheese, shoot 1-2 bursts of Tactical Rifle, fire Swiss Cheese, shoot 1-2 burstsTactical Rifle for a bigger buff, fire Swiss Cheese, ShootTactical Rifle for the biggest possible buff until buff duration runs out, in which case a short duration applying a large buff at the end of 3 Swiss Cheeses would be more than enough to add some significant damage making it a better skill playing to it’s higher level spot and you’d effectively get more time under the effects of a buff that might actually last the duration of an entire clip by shooting a little in-between and refreshing it after a few bursts extending the amount of bullets affected by the buff with increasing returns throughout the fight and of course the skill and timing factor of having to connect with the same target calculating in travel time of the Scrap and animation time. The setup time for it would give enemies enough time to retreat or in that same vein force a retreat until the short debuff duration wears off which would give Whiskey another option and keep it from being op’d since the duration is so short. Extend the duration to 5 seconds to make stacking more viable and let you finish a clip with a little leeway considering even extending it to 6 or 7 seconds wouldn’t let you start firing another clip it seems fair to ask for a single extra second.

1 Like