Role Based Units discussion

Homeworld Remastered Collection Homeworld Mods and Modding
#1

Hi,
When I read some balancing discussions, I note that we could have many different builds to test and explicit something.
I was thinking of a mod with the folowing features:

  • more based in discussions rather creations, and arguments are backed by lua files & stats
  • it doesn’t take long to release versions;
  • a mod to support other mods - we are all thinking about units and how they would perform in our mod;
  • not based on the assumption that Relic or Gearbox made something wrong and has to be fixed. We are not fixing anything, we are learning and/or taking the advantage of the potential of the game engine.

The Role based Units MOD would be one that we go on discussing unit by unit to note how it would affect the balance when it performs its role. For example: The HGN interceptor is really intercepting something? Why the AI doesn’t use it in late game? Or why can’t it have a late game performance (Skirmish)?

So if this would be a MOD to support our work it could function like this:

  • We would create a SVN project with a DATA folder;
  • In this folder we put the ship files, subs and etc - OVER TIME;
  • Also, we would put the starting fleets and maybe a version of the DUEL test scenario by LeSunTzu to isolate combats and test units;
  • Everyone connected to the SVN project can submit versions for testing;
  • Targeted to connect modders it is extensible to anyone who likes the topic;
  • Innitial discussions or conceptual discussions are made here, but specifics of the units and extensions are left as notes in the SVN system (SVN has a forum + ticket system + chat)
  • Whenever we have a “stable” version we release on Steam to collect different feedbacks;
  • HW allows us to have an official version and N other versions, once you can base a ship in the stock file and create your own ship file. It can also be listed in the BUILD menu along side with the official one (the Siber Interceptor, the Pouk Interceptor and etc);
  • The mod is not WORK oriented, it’s DISCUSSION oriented. We get a UNIT, stress it for a while and get back to our mods;
  • No MOD owner, but we would need someone experienced with SVN to moderate;
  • We could have paralel discussions, but I wouldn’t know how it would work;
  • Innitially, discussions and balance are focused within each game: HGN x VGR and KSN x TDN.

I wrote this in a rush and might have to clarify later whenever necessary. Tell me what you think of?

#2

Seems like rather ambitious goals… but for what purpose? Is it just to experiment with the vanilla game’s balance and the mechanics exposed to modding?

#3

I’m trying to wrap my head around it.

my interpretation:

create a repository that anyone can submit modified/rebalanced versions of ships

test ships in a dual format to see which modifications provide the best representation of the ship

discuss pros and cons, and determine strategies to implement specific roles

One thing I think may cause an issue, but I am not 100% sure about since i haven’t explored the system is the ability to create combat maneuvers/attack styles that would be specifically bound to the ship or the tags and how this could be sanely managed in the SVN

If it is just limited to the .ship I think it would be hard to get proper behavior modification

#4

On the contrary, there is no planned final goal. It couldn’t be so simple, in terms of the time it would take from anyone. It can be done by 3 or 4 ppl or more, depends on anyone interest. It’s not a priority thing, it would start with a unit you’d like in a different way and someone else add or comment with another idea on top of it, like we do when we comment on any mod forum, except you can play/test it.

Well, I’m not familiar yet with the changes in the “data structure”, I guess we can make it broader extending to other Lua files that might be necessary.

I think we might have to discover these limits, but we can start with small things that can be sanely managed by SVN.

Before going into SVN, we can make a list of ships we want to investigate and see how everybody else react to them. Maybe we find a candidate ship and start by there.

#5

I’m not very interested in stock unit balance, but I am very interested in how to get various units to behave for specific roles. I can envision a custom AI that will build different variants of the same ship that would be suited to filling in specific capabilities. For example having variant ‘interceptor’ that filled the following roles

Interdiction/interception/CAP: specifically hunts down threats to other vessels like bombers, warheads etc before they breach a perimeter

Anti fighter/dogfighter: engages other fighters first and tries to eliminate them

Escort: designed to be deployed in mixed bomber/corvette groups and act as a localized protection screen.

Space superiority: A fighter that can handle it self in all situations and in a larger capital combat situation with a balanced degree of capabilities

2 Likes
#6

I didn’t say final goal, I said goals. The most problematic of which is getting a bunch of modders to participate in something that has never been done before - and without a clear direction like “make a star wars mod” to catalyze interest, attract like-minded people, and give them a general target to shoot for.

All we know is you’re targeting vanilla balance, and that you’re apparently not happy with it. I think you need to get the ball rolling so others have an example to go off of.

#7

I’m not happy with how people discuss balancing (in general, by overpowering preferred units, not by discussing what the unit is supposed to do). Vanilla just showed up in the discussion because we can put the original and the modification together in the build menu, the interceptor was just an example. And yet, Evillejedi found something to “work” with. Who knows what everybody else think about other ships. It’s an exploratory tool, hence no goals.
When I get something to expose, I’ll put the SVN link here.