SalCapCorvette unit cap

I think that last one should result in 14 dead corvettes. Vagyr already has to choose between fighter/corvette/frigates - I agree with assault frigates losing to heavy vettes or lasers but they should be able to kill salvagers.

For the last test, of the 7 frigs I tried to capture, I think 4 of them were assault frigates. If I had just tried to capture the heavy missile frigates, the assault frigates prolly would have done much better.

Vaygr assault frigates are primarily anti-fighter like the hiig flak frigate though. But they are decent vs corvettes too - just not as good as a hiig torpedo frigate or hw1 assault frigate (which are mainly anti-corvette, and decent anti-frig).

I think possibly a sane first try to see how people feel about it is to increase the Salvage Corvette’s HP (armor, whatever it is) by 33%, and stick it in the BETA to try out in the campaigns and multiplayer.

It’s easy, it’s not a super game changer, and it might be enough of a difference to work.

After a few weeks, revisit the topic.

That sounds pretty insane to me. I think all those salvage vettes should’ve been destroyed, period. From those testing results, I think the salvage corvette is kind of overpowered.

Also, keeping in mind that the salvage corvette is a marginal military unit.

Well, look, nothing’s being decided here as is. Some people, myself included, think they’re fine in the campaign at the moment, but others think they’re not. And, even more so, Salvage Corvettes seem to be much weaker against human opponents. This is a fairly small change compared to many of the others being suggested (e.g., completely removing the cap), and frankly, I don’t think too much more time should be spent debating this.

If we increase the survivability by third or so, and people complain really loudly that Salvage Corvettes are too survivable now, then we know that was too much. Since it’s only in the BETA, it won’t affect most players.

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You should have performed HW1 frigate testing too. I’m pretty sure you will find the assault frigates are way over powered against the salvettes, as in none will survive.

Frankly they may as well remove the salvettes from the game they are always going to be too powerful a non military unit even though they ARE a military unit. They also still have the problem of having to go BACK to the mothership regardless of ship captured, and are pretty much being relegated to a fluff unit. Lets ignore the fact the marine/capture frigs give you the ship in the middle of the action and are far more survivable than the salvettes.

They are so useless as a tactical unit right now I don’t even know if the scuttle bug is still in place. I haven’t built them in more than 3 games since the patch.

Right now the only ships that guarantee a loss if you don’t build them are frigates.

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[HW1R]

I found this to be true also. As it is now, the only way to guarantee a capture is if you have enough salcaps to latch onto every unit. Otherwise the loose units will target them and one by one, destroy them. I’ve found that all units target them as priority first. This was my reasoning behind eliminating the ‘dedicated’ salcap unit cap.

I’ve noticed this as well. A group of 16 heavy corvettes can ‘not’ destroy an assault frigate in under 1 minute.

The salcap is a game piece and as such should be playable to a good degree of success like any other unit in game. Some players want to have the option of using them.

Good call alpha:
14 salvage corvettes vs 5 Kus Ion Frigates + 5 Kus Assault Frigates = 0 frigates captured, 14 losses
I targeted all 5 assault frigates too, but the corvettes died so fast…

Looks like hw1 assault frigates are doing far better than hiig torpedo frigates vs all corvettes, which was not at all intended. They were supposed to perform about the same vs corvettes.

Just added issue #19 to the list:

Once Balance Issue #3, 10, and 19 are fixed - salvage corvettes should be in a better place.

Also the salvage corvette exploit was fixed in the 2.1 patch.

You neglected major parts of his post. They’re still not going to be viable.

In the 2.0 patch, they at-least take frigates back to the carrier now too. But ya, they’re pretty fundamentally different.

For reference, on shield there’s a disc in the middle. The width of that disc is how far these ships started apart (and all my tests for that matter):
4 hiig marine frigates vs 1 hiig destroyer = 121seconds to capture.
8 kus salvage corvettes + kus mothership vs 1 hiig destroyer = 120 seconds to grab the destroyer, return it to the mothership, and capture it. Plus another 80 seconds to move the destroyer back to where it originally was.

Just added a salvage corvette health bump as issue #20 to hopefully be tested in the Patch Preview:

[quote=“Cloaked, post:1, topic:1512184”]Number 20 salvage corvettes considered underpowered

Suggested changes:
In hw1c they had a bit more health than multigun corvettes, but a bit less health than heavy corvettes. It should prolly be the same in HWR. Suggested to change the health from 1000->1200.
[/quote]

So now we have:
3: reduce interceptor damage vs corvettes by 31%
10: reduce bomber damage vs corvettes by 75%
19: reduce hw1 assault frigate damage vs corvettes by 50%
20: increase salvage corvette health 20%

Well… It’s a start :slight_smile:

It takes salcaps much longer than marine frigates to bring a captured ship into play.

To disable a capture you only need to kill one salcap. As long as 1 marine frigate is latched the capture continues.

HW1 Carriers are only good for frigates and below.

HW1 Carriers are not always available to use for capturing.

1 marine frigate is worth 2 salcaps? I don’t think this comparison is remotely fair.

Loose the salcap dedicated cap and we can call it square :slight_smile: I think it’s fair since you must trade off strike craft for salcaps.

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I think we can compromise on testing what we’ve come up with.

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Actually I disagree with this, you can stop a marine frigate from capturing by using just 1 salvette so yeah they are worth 2 each.

I would posit that the health doesn’t really need to be adjusted if the other 3 changes are made. If after those changes they still seem paper thin then it can be added.

Keep in mind it is still possible to hyper in an MS in a mid-large map and take a carrier with max salvettes and even full fighter squads as they are now can’t kill enough of them to prevent it if the MS hypers within 2 KM of that carrier.

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We need to test some of these changes individually. If all of these are applied at the same time, we might find corvettes to be immortal.

And do people think HW1 assault frigates are overpowered vs corvettes? They seem much worse at killing vettes than torpedo frigates.

They are supposed to be worse than torp frigs, torps are specific to corvettes, assault are a multi-role ship. They are supposed to be decent against corvettes and caps, not RPS for corvettes.

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Quick question: I realize this is off topic for this post. I didn’t want to make a new topic. I just want to remind everyone…

Has the cloaking been addressed for cloaked fighters? There are issues with cloaked fighters not being able to hide…

Upgraded torps are better than assaults vs frigates it seems - assault frigates still miss 1/3 of their rounds against frigates.

See issue #19. Hw1 assault frigs are actually doing twice as good vs corvs as torp frigs. The intention was to make both about the same vs corvs, somehow that got messed up after ballistics were added.

Health wise tho, torps are the weakest frig in the game and hw1 assault frigs are the strongest.

@MaxL_1023 off memory i think their accuracy is 80% vs frigs. A lot of guns are like that now, including hiig bc guns vs capital ships. I personally think 90% would look better but tons of ships would need to be touched and possibly rebalanced - so meh. Missed shots can still hurt other ships behind them though (ballistics).

@herbyguitar Cloaking only works if your ships aren’t attacking, so put them in passive. The AI ignores cloaking though so some ppl thought they didnt work, but they do in MP. HWR cloaking isnt like in hw1c though. Hw1c would cloak your ships as soon as they stopped firing.

@Cloaked: In campaign and computer opponents they don’t work at all… This can’t be right…

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Ya its a known issue. Theres many posts and a couple threads floating around about it.