I’ve noticed this a lot on the final Giant Chest on the Algorithm. More often than not, the bonus score bubbles jump into the lava pools to the left and right.
Or when you’ve been sent flying just as the boss dies and collect any. Ugh. Definitely agree with you
Basically carry the same idea that you have with the score bonus drops, they should not de-spawn and should not fall off the map. I can’t remember what game it was, but I have experienced a game where the drops from enemies pulls towards you, meaning you can focus on the fight and still get all of the score.
That is a little extreme for Battleborn, as the majority of the score drops happen at the end of a boss fight and therefore, not much combat to focus on after that fight is over, but I guess it is something to think about.
Either way, nice post FF.
Yes!!! I’m surprised this thread isn’t flooded with people agreeing. The bonus balls are very frustrating. It drives me crazy getting stuck on something I should be able to walk over and consequently miss out on the bonus. Man, I can’t agree more with post.
While I fully agree that current bonus score mechanics are irritating, I don’t think it’d be wise to alter them so they don’t disappear at all. Because in that case everyone will get nearly the same score and there won’t be any challenge in getting silver/gold.
I suppose it’s too late to ask for a scoring system to be reworked in a way in doesn’t rely on such random things, probably extending bonus scores’ lifetime will help a bit. But it still won’t fix ranged heroes issue. Maybe bosses should drop the scores not where they’re standing but where heroes stand.
Lol after noticing this I started making sure I can get as close as possible to miniboss/bosses near death so as to be able to “suck up” more orbs without having to chase them down xD
It feels as though the “orb shower” was to incite hype into gathering loot/pickups but imo most players might not bother and won’t notice it being a negative as far as scoring goes.
That might be true, when playing solo. A team, however, might coordinate the collecting of ‘Score Bubbles’.
I even had some public games, where the team managed to collect all of them without voice communication. Everybody needs to know about this in advance, though.
I actually enjoy the challenge of colleting them before despawn. Has more of a ‘bonus point’ feel to it.
Including possible Speed Pickups from the Boss, you need at least three people knowing what they’re doing while collecting the score. Sounds like a reward for good teamplay to me.
Increasing the time before despawn a little might make it a little easier, without losing them as an actual bonus.
Although I have to say, I completely agree with your second point. The bubbles shouldn’t drop into spaces you can’t possibly reach.
Interesting Side Note, though: Whenever we gathered all ‘Score Bubbles’ (labeled ‘Bonus Points’ ingame iirc) from a single Boss, we got Legendary Gear, even on normal
It’s just a dumb thing to rely your score on since it requires no skill, just speed and luck since they disappear so fast and fall off the map. Why not have medals relate to the number of enemies slain plus bots built with shards plus lives left or something like every other game of all time?
Exactly, it’s got nothing to do with skill. That annoys me to no end
Score bubbles need rework in that they need to be eliminated. Completely. Especially the golden ones with short lifespans. I’ve killed the boss, but the difference between me getting a bronze or silver medal is whether I can sprint in a circle fast enough!?
I’m going to avoid the language I’d like to use about the stupidity of this system, because I don’t want to get banned, but come on! This has got to be one of the worst design decisions I’ve ever seen.
When a large chunk of the scoring system of your class-based FPS campaign is tied to remembering to loot every single chest, even if you don’t need or want credits/buffs, and standing as close to almost-dead bosses as you can (to run in that ever-important circle) you’ve failed as a developer.
To those who say that without these bubbles everybody would just be getting easy silvers/golds and have identical scores, I offer you a list of things from the top of my head that should give us a robust score-system that isn’t lazy, and instead flows naturally from the player’s understanding of the kind of game they’re playing (a game where you’re trying to kill bad guys and stay alive. Not go treasure hunting).
How well you play your given character (crits for those who can reliably get them, AOE damage where relevant, healing/support efficiency, aggro held/damage taken for tanks, how often and well you utilize your character’s skills in general)
Accuracy (adjusted for gameplay differences in characters like Thorn, Montana, and Melee characters)
Total health left on defense points
Total kills/time (or anything that doesn’t reward ridiculously counter-intuitive attempts to keep bosses spawning adds, instead of just killing the bosses as fast as possible).
The loot system should only be affecting score by giving you well-timed buffs (for smart players that know when to loot a chest, save it for later, or share it with a teammate), and by giving you gear that helps you in, again, killing bad guys, staying alive, and doing it like a badass.
I assumed that the above factors, or something like them, would be the main determinants in final score. The fact that Gearbox has me running in circles after killing Geoff or waiting to kill ISIC when his head is near the floor (and near me) has killed my desire to play the PVE portion of this game. And that’s a bummer.
I wouldn’t say, that collecting Bonus Points is a prerequisite for silver or gold. I managed to get gold on most PvE Missions, even in Public Games, without relying on Bonus Points.
Also, I would consider ‘treasure hunting’ an important part. Aside from Gear Packs, an early Helix bubble (or Extra Life) can make most missions a lot easier and some people seem to ignore Point Pickups (actually had 4 people running by open chests with Score, Helix, Score yesterday).
The (possible) spawn points of Red Chests are also ignored by many players I met in public matchmaking. And I got two Epic Loot Packs from those in one (short) day of gaming.
I guess, what I’m trying to say is that every other game format encourages active looting. Be it Borderlands (as a somewhat similar FPS/RPG hybrid) or even good old Diablo (basically any Hack’n’Slay).
So this should definitely be something you’re expected to do in Battleborn.
Just my two cents.
I think the bubbles are an interesting mechanic, as much as I loathe them for every reason OP has mentioned.
Falling off the map: This should also apply to DoT fields, such as lava. But for the sake of coding easiness/using existing game logic, I’d suggest that if they fall into the abyss or into a DoT field, they take a page from the major bosses and respawn somewhere feasible. My main concern with the fields is if you’re playing a character that either has no shields, or needs to constantly deplete them (IE Thorn or Kleese).
Not despawning: Yeah, it’s ridiculous how quickly those disappear, especially for anyone playing ranged solo. My typical “trick” is to stand in the middle of their physics-removed body just before they explode with orbs. It’s not perfect, but it helps. But again, it can be nigh impossible to do that in some cases. Anyway. Rather than not despawning at all, I’d recommend extending the timer – but only while bearing the below in mind.
I’ve been trying to think about a possible solution, but could only come up with a middle ground. I think we’re all in agreement that missing those score orbs on a boss that you have to defeat is pointlessly frustrating. I would suggest to remove the orbs all together from boss fights and instead lump the missed points into the base sum.
…But let’s not get rid of them entirely. The second part of this suggestion is that they be left in for loot crates, where the bubble radius is significantly smaller. Players typically have to go out of their way to search for some of these anyway (IE, large chests that usually have a helix and/or extra life), so why not keep the bubble there (albeit with the proposed changes at the top of this post) so they still have to be paying attention to some degree.
Where I’m left at a loss here, is when it comes to random score orbs that drop from adds when you’re a ranged character. The perfect case for this argument is the boss rush at the end of The Heliophage, where you have to snipe enemies down in order to survive if you’re playing ranged. (I’m saying this as someone who played Thorn and had no shields. Never mind her life steal ability for a moment.) I think the only “decent” (I say this lightly) compromise would be to keep their score orb spawns, but make sure they have a longer life span.
IMO, making them not disappear at all would be equivalent to lumping in their score with the associated entity’s score value. If they stay at all, they should just have a longer (read: reasonable) life span.
As solo player it is for sure. I don’t think you can do higher than bronze on the “Renegade” mission without grabing most of the yellow balls at the end boss. Failure to do so = failure to get silver, even with all monsters killed, all chests looted, all buildable built, no death, etc…
Asinine mechanic is asinine and has to go.
Just replace the bonus point by bonus money to spend at the market place and adjust the scoring accordingly so it only relies on skill and not on luck and the effect of motivating people to go search for loot should be the same without having the adverse effect of grieving solo players.
Who greenlighted a luck mechanic to reward a skill based achievement anyway ???
How about when you beat Rendain, and he does his death spasm while spewing not just the bonus scores but also any loot drops?
Except he very well may have just dropped the dreadwind spinning blades around himself before you killed him, covering the entire area where he’s dropping loot and score orbs, and the mission forces you out of the Void arena as soon as he’s finished dying.
At first it was frustrating but now that I know,I think it’s fun yet challenging in a chaotic type of way. It will be twice as lame if they don’t despawn too but they shouldn’t fall off the map. Some easy ways to make sure you get all score bubbles is to equip a gear that increases sprint after you collect a pickup. Also for chests that shoot them off the map, simply open the chest while standing on top of it. Please don’t make the bubbles last forever
I don’t think the score should be rating your ability to collect quickly those yellow balls though. It’s a weird system to be honest.
I feel the entire score system needs a rework to prevent fatigue and tedium. As much as I enjoyed running around each mission collecting every single orb and shard my first 50 or so runs, it is now quite tiresome. I still do it because most teammates don’t, and I need a couple challenges related to drops (the lives and level ups, which have stupidly high requirements given their relative rarity), but it is simply not fun and I do not feel should help determine how well you completed a mission.
What should count is how quickly and safely your team completes a mission. Whether we pick up some score orbs bouncing around should be irrelevant. This will come into play more as the game ages and people just want to run missions and kill things without exploring every nook and cranny each time, which artificially inflates the mission length.
You can encourage active looting without it being directly tied to your final score. I mention that exact thing in my post.
The system they have now is just an artificial way to make sure people have to open every single chest they can see or know about, while also making certain solo characters and even certain teams are hamstrung and must play against their design by making them prepare for the stupid “yellow-orb circle-sprint” at various points. It’s ridiculous.
And the score bubbles absolutely do have a significant impact on your medal. As soon as I learned about this I started testing stuff on solo runs and on duo-runs with my brother. They have consistently been the difference between medals. Maybe after some more runs I’ll make a post with some numbers and analysis to really illustrate this.
In short, this isn’t Borderlands, it’s not an RPG, and even if it was, score bubbles are still a lazy system that doesn’t have any good design reason to exist.
Okay, I had some time, so I decided to do as extreme a test as I could. I’ll gather all my tests later if there’s enough interest, but honestly, if these numbers aren’t enough to give everybody extreme pause, then I don’t know what to say.
I played these on The Algorithm (normal). First Time with Shayne & Aurox (my second time using them in any game mode), and the second with Oscar Mike (my main). See the next paragraph for my reasoning on these choices. TL;DR at the end.
Shane and Aurox I chose because I could use their stealth to ensure I was next to every boss and miniboss that I fought. She’s not the fastest, and I don’t think I ever collected every yellow bonus, but I got most of them. (At least 30 total, and is guess closer to 40). Oscar Mike I chose because A) I know I can do well at killing and not dying with him, and B) I can (and did) use his long range crit-based build. The only official info I’ve seen from 2K on scoring is that time, kills, and crits are taken into account. The rest they don’t want to share because if they came right out and said “pickups” more people would be pissed about this). Anyway, this build of OM assured I’d have no/low deaths, high crit-count, be able to clear the level quickly, and importantly, be far enough away from anyone that drops yellow score bubbles.
I looted every single chest and breakable on the map with S & A, and made sure to be in the face of every “yellow-bonus-dropper” at their time of death (this includes ISIC). I also collected every shard.
With Oscar Mike I didn’t collect from a single openable chest, I collected most shards (I think I missed a few barrels), and any breakable chests that happened to be broken through the normal course of play I picked up. I accidentally picked up a total of 3 yellow bonus bubbles.
Shayne &Aurox: Team - 30539, Bonus - 30450, Time - 63:12 Final - 60989 (Silver)
(Kills - 258, Respawns - 4, Shards 15040, Chests Opened - 111, Pickups - 974, Drones Built - 4, Ttl Dmg Tkn - 72308, Ttl Dmg Dlt - 204515)
Oscar Mike: Team - 24307, Bonus - 1750, Time - 38:23, Final - 26057
(Kills - 214, Respawns - 1 (accidentally fell off a cliff :), Shards 12040, Chests Opened - 19, Pickups - 503, Drones Built - 4, Total Dmg Tkn - 24881, Ttl Dmg Dlt - 191916)
Note that my S & A run got two “Kill 40 Swarmers” challenges, and OM only got a single swarmer wave, hence the difference of about 40 kills between the two runs. I successfully completed two of those kinds of random challenges in each run. The damage/kill of the two runs was 792.69 and 896.80, respectively (so a better rate of damage with OM).
Shane and Aurox got less damage/kill, took around 3 times the damage, died three more times, got way less crits, took about 25 more minutes to complete their run, but by getting every chest and every yellow score-bubble, as opposed to almost none for OM, got slightly more than double my score with OM. This. Is. Ridiculous.
I’ll do a run with OM later where I collect every chest but avoid all yellow bubbles.