Scrap the scrap cannon

Battleborn Open Beta Whisky Foxtrot Discussion
#2

I have to agree with your post. I really liked the look of WTF, played a few games in different modes, then realised he was pathetic. The only skill I liked was the sticky grenades, but against moving targets these get wasted too. Classes like this are just there for support, so if that’s the case they need better shielding and health. Compared with other ranged attackers who do considerably more damage, and have better AoE skills, he’s lacking something.

Maybe the scrap cannon could have a better stun/slow effect or something like a wider+bigger projectile count that slowed enemy hit. Or turn it into a cluster bomb effect, or add a burning napalm effect to it. Needs an update for sure.

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#3

Agreed, it’s just too hard to use and doesn’t cover many options. A stun effect would be interesting, though I think the slow would be a little more balanced.

#4

Just here to agree as well. Very underwhelming.

#5

Doesn’t his last helix make all ult bullets shield pierce?

#6

Yeah, which is great against shielded enemies, and Wolf sentries. But underwhelming against Eldrid, as it still has no significant base DPS boosts.

#7

For me personally, I like to use these secondary skills as a means try and hold a certain area of the map. Scrap cannon w/ knockback can come in pretty handy in those moments where a minion is about to go in the scrapper or an enemy is in your face and you need some breathing room. Just throwing that out there ;D

#8

Meh.

Scrapping it completely would mean I would lose all interest I had in WF.
A buff seems more likely.

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#9

Have to disagree. I don’t think the scrap cannon is intended to be a damage dealer, it’s more or less for utility with the knockback and it can be extremely useful for forcing enemies out of position with proper aiming. Although, you actually can get pretty decent damage on it if you take the +2 scrap charges and use it in close range.

I found WF better after I got used to using his skill shots. A fully upgraded sticky bomb does great damage and the scopes make his default attacks a lot better. As far as his ult goes it’s good if you can aim it. Can’t say he needs any buffs right now. (his mutations also make him a good bit more powerful so that’s something)

#10

I just don’t understand why you have to hit the fire button after activating it, instead of just firing it at once… Doesn’t make any sense and makes it very hard to aim

#11

Hey Joe! Howz it going :smile:

See, what you’ve stated goes along with what we are saying. If it can only be used as a utility, and in minor instances, surely having a bit of a tweak to add slowing in a wider area would be a nice helix upgrade. Knocking back 1 enemy lacks over all use, and leaves little for crowd control. If the scrap shot spread a lit and slowed enemy in an area, it would then fit in nicely with well placed sticky bombs. As it is WTF isn’t the most damaging one out there, and Oscar Mike is way better on the team. Just a couple of tweaks and he’d be there.

@Kadeshi has a good point too, it would be better if you could just hit R1 and it fired, instead of having to arm it first. In close quarter combat I found it too slow to be effective.

3 Likes
#12

@JoeKGBX plz tell to the guys there to remove that arming feature, doesn’t make sense wasting time arming a skill like that, there is no need to parabolic aiming, or charging, or anything, and by the time that you get it ready to shot phoebe already wobo comboed you, and that is why I rather use my melee move to escape a melee attacker instead of scrap, too slow to actually fire. If it is supposed to be a close combat skill that saves you, it should be ready to fire anytime

2 Likes
#13

Circumstantial, but yes you can knock back ONE minion. A rather short distance. So short a distance and for so little damage that if I hold my ground I can empty an entire clip into it and it’s already back at my feet melee attacking me. Not counting the 3-4 other minions they roll with. Then you’ve got a whopping 12 second cooldown. If it put out decent damage it might be a viable utility, but it barely puts a dint in the weakest minions in the entire game. That’s some bull****. Assuming you take the helix upgrade that adds two extra shots without cooldown, all 3 shots are required to take down a single minion. I’ve used the helix upgrades to either widen the spread or tighten in in conjunction with the two extra shots to no avail. It’s dps just doesn’t match his rifle no matter which way you look at it, and as a utility is just falls behind. I’ve blasted enemy players away with it - well before they get into melee range - and turn to run only to have them catch me in a few seconds. It doesn’t justify as an escaping method on it’s own and it’s the only escaping tool he has at all. Considering the size of some bosses, it’s damage + knockback effect is absolutely useless. I barely even use it in PvE.

Options>Gameplay>Skill Activations style and change to instant. It’s a must for playing this lovable douchenozzle lol

2 Likes
#14

So someone smarter than me who has their hands in the day to day numbers would be a more appropriate person to give a “sure thing” answer (if such a thing exists) than I am, but my impression of scrap cannon has always been just that – that it’s less a weapon whose performance should be judged based on DPS, and more a circumstantial (as you put it) utility tool. In other words, I’ve always viewed it less as a “weapon” (in the traditional sense) and more as a specific use tool.

For example: Orendi’s Nullify skill can be “weaponized” to leave a trail of flame behind when she uses it. When I play Orendi, I tend to choose that skill as a little bonus to a skill that I use as a means of evasion. So the skill’s purpose is more for escape, evasion, and map control, but thrown into that mix is a little bonus that might do a little damage, but isn’t intended to kill as it were.

To be clear, this is just my opinion and reflects my personal playstyle. I’m in no way implying that your point is invalid here, because it’s totally valid – that’s just my two cents. As luck would have it, @Jythri popped by my office as I was typing this and we briefly discussed it. We agreed that it’s a multi-faceted debate with no wrong answer.

1 Like
Some ideas for WF buff
#15

Thanks for the reply. It’s nice to know that someone is at least reading what you write lol.

I agree it’s definitely more of a utility tool than a dps weapon, BUT it’s just a terrible tool in comparison to most other characters (haven’t played them all so I won’t say it’s the worst). Comparing him to Oscar Mike will always be the downfall of Whisky Tango but as they - for the most part - have the most similarities in play style and functionality let’s compare their corresponding skills. Oscar Mike’s Stealth Generator cloaks him for 9 seconds at it’s base and can be upgraded to recharge his shields/add 16% bonus damage/reduce cooldown time. The Scrap Cannon deals poor damage at it’s base and THEN requires separate upgrades to push enemies back/propel yourself back/tighten or widen the spread/add extra shots… all of which are pretty damn useless outside of very specific circumstances. Very serious lack of balance here.

Still not counting the fact that Oscar Mike as a Pusher class got a stealth generator over Whisky Tango as an assassin class. Seriously, who thought that made sense? Lol.

I appreciate that, and I’m in no way trying to do anything other than also voice my own opinion here - even if it’s in the form of venting frustration. I love Whisky Tango; I love his look, his dialogue, his burst rifle… I wouldn’t mind some adjustments to his sticky bomb… but I just can’t get behind the scrap cannon as it is.

I have never bought a game at release, full price, or pre-ordered. I was happily prepared to pay up the $130 aud pre-order with season pass but I’m not sure I even want to now, it has affected my experience so badly. It might seem petty but there’s nothing worse than wanting to play your favourite character and constantly getting trumped.

Can we just put Whisky Tango in Borderlands 3? Pretty please??

2 Likes
#16

but this will make instant to ALL and I still wanna to aim some skills, for example the stick granade, still wanna aim it…

#17

Ahh fair enough… You’ll just have to cross your fingers and wish on the North star in the name of Satan then in the hopes they update the scrap cannon to always auto fire :smirk:

#18

Or just ask for it to the devs, after all this is a beta, that is what betas are made for, testing. And it is not auto fire, it is fire without arming
btw nice joke, not

#19

Thank you for pointing this out, has made so much difference!!

1 Like
#20

If scrap cannon is intended to be more utility and less a weapon, than what shinobido said in another thread should happen, knock back by default. Since it would be a utility CC that generally only effects one enemy at a time, its cooldown should be reduced. Maybe in place of the knock back skill on his helix you could put in a small DoT to keep enemy shields down.

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#21

I can’t remember which character level it requires to unlock, but there’s a mutation for that level 1 helix option that gives a 50% bonus damage to shields that I would have loved to use! I get so annoyed that I could never use it because choosing the helix upgrade to push enemies back was the only thing that made the scrap cannon even useful