Sentry shields should be invincible until minions take them down

Battleborn Battleborn Competitive Multiplayer Discussion
#1

I was playing on Incursion the other day and while our team was pushing our opponents and taking out their first sentry, a Kleese got behind us and I’m pretty sure he single-handedly took out our sentry. I don’t think any minions were back there helping him because, again, we were completely dismantling their sentry.

This kind of thing simply shouldn’t be possible and isn’t in a game like League of Legends. I really think Sentry shields should simply not be able to take damage until there are minions at least in the vicinity.

The recent changes to Incursion have been great and have really made it more important than ever to push minions and grab the Thrall camps. If we changed the Sentry shields as I’m requesting that would also help to further emphasize the fact that this is a mode about pushing minions and without them, you can’t succeed.

FWIW our team went on to win. It was 50-50 by the end but we had higher score because we got a lot more kills on them.

EDIT: Just going to edit to respond to a couple of themes I see coming up. Yes, obviously map awareness is a thing and we should have realized the sentry was under attack. However, in our defense the Sentry did not give its usual warning and that life bar is pretty easy to miss with everything else going, especially as, like I said, we were busy whomping on their sentry. By the time I ported back to base thinking “job well done”, I realized our sentry was under attack and we were too late to save it.

Also, here’s the main point. “Backdooring” the sentry should not be possible at all. That’s why I make this suggestion. The game is supposed to be about pushing minions, if you can kill the sentries without pushing minions then there is no point to them. I brought up League because backdooring in that game is nearly impossible, I mean, maybe late game you could backdoor a turret but even late game I doubt you could backdoor the Nexus and its’ turrets. This is good game design and I think Incursion in Battleborn should function the same way.

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#2

It takes a while for a Kleese to go through the Sentry’s shield, if your team is careless enough to leave him alone for that long period of time…you kinda deserve to lose.

There are indicators (both visual and audio) that let you know that your sentry is under attack.

If you allow a champ to backdoor you with no opposition, they should be able to mess up your sentry. Though, I wish the sentry was a little better at damaging solo targets.

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#3

Really? Those things wreck me in 2 shots. I’m pretty sure someone even posted a thread asking to nerf them a while ago lol. I think they’re perfectly balanced with their damage output. Enough damage to be a very big threat, but not enough to one shot your hero

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#4

It’s 50/50 lol. In my experience, there seem to be too many line of sight breaks that you can take advantage of. Pop out and take a few shots, break line of sight as he’s firing and you’ll generally be okay with no enemy team interference.

#5

Yeah, I don’t know too many characters that have projectile weapons or skills that can do that much damage with a few shots though. The idea that they’re stopping the sentry shield from recharging doesn’t hold up in my experience, as the enemy team will chase you off pretty quick or their next wave of minions will be on top of you followed by a giant minion and/or thrall. You never really do enough damage or camp there long enough to achieve much.

Even without enemy team interference, those sentries can lock onto you with their laser sight that will track you through terrain. You take a few shots which gives it enough time to lock on, then hide behind cover while it fires, pop out to take a few more shots and BLAM
you get nailed coz it’s still locked on to you and that shot is charged and ready to go!

That’s been my experience anyway! :smile:

#6

I do agree with your original point, though. If you’ve let an enemy hero destroy or heavily damage your sentry solo then that’s more of a map awareness issue. Keep track of you enemies and research other heroes’ skills so you know what to expect and how to counter

#7

Kleese does damage over time by continually dropping rifts… OM just ults it to completely drop the shields… Benedict just keeps hitting it over time dropping in and out… and don’t even get me started on how fast ISIC can wreck it hopping up back there, and god forbid you have two hop up on that ledge…

#8

(cough) this: Here's the problem with "backdooring" in Incursion (cough)

You can read all of the responses you’re likely to get… like “it doesn’t matter that the announcements don’t work” And “it just makes the game more dynamic to have one enemy take down a giant objective without the game notifying you.” Or the always lovely “you’re just a bad player if you don’t babysit your sentry the whole game.” But the best, by far, is “That flashing on the life-bar is really easy to see, I’ve never missed it.”

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#9

Yeah, I already weighed in on that thread of yours too lol. Some characters have high damage easy to use skills, I don’t dispute that, but I’ve never seen anyone drop the sentry shield on their own. Attacking it via the mid lane, you can’t do much more than shoot off your ult and then get chased off, and the point I was making was that the sentry deals enough player damage to be a threat. If you’ve let your sentry drop because you didn’t chase off an enemy player then that’s not a game issue. If you can only revert back to your argument of OM/ISIC/Benedict dropping their ult at this point, I can only reiterate; I’ve never seen any BB take down a full - or even half full - sentry shield with their ult. I’m not saying that you’re wrong, I just cannot agree to something that my 50+ hours in game have continually disproven to me.

The sentry’s damage output is hampered by backdooring as it’s far easier to hide from it on that ledge, but that’s still not a game issue imo and I don’t think we should start a whole new discussion about whether it’s a viable tactic or a cheap exploit.

My only point on this thread here is a simple one.

SENTRY HIT HARD. SENTRY NO NEED BUFF.

#10

Yes, the sentry hits hard, when it can fire back. I’ve seen a single character take down a sentry shield a handful of times by themselves, and by “seen” I mean, suddenly my sentry shield is showing a big exclamation point and not just its meaningless flash.

If you haven’t seen a player or two ult down a sentry, then I don’t know what to tell you, maybe I’ll record it happening tonight so I can show it to you since for some reason people continue to deny things actually exist until I record it and show it to them (the flashing not being noticeable, the sentry announcing without being under fire, the sentry not announcing when it IS under fire)

People keep telling me that it just doesn’t exist, like I make this stuff up after playing over 200 games of incursion.

I’ve done it myself during a locked game… the timer’s ticking down, so I go in with Shane and Aurox and our Phoebe comes with me… two ults and a handful of melees and we drop the sentry all by our lonesomes in a base full of enemies that turtled the whole game.

It’s a shame I didn’t record the next push this team did to me when I didn’t respawn to stop them in time: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/V0LUM3/video/17757889

I mean, do you think they’re rushing across the map with just two of them and dumping their ults like this because it doesn’t work? The entire reason my sentry is down at ALL is because they did this, and it started with just Marquis, then OM joined in, and this was the only time anyone else on the team even tried to help them (the Reyna).
Marquis is jumping up behind that rock for a reason: Because the sentry can’t hit him there… OM is dumping his ult for a reason: Because it drops the sentry shield for Marquis.

Look at that situation, not a minion anywhere, just two enemies sprinting up to my sentry… while they’re “winning.” But it can’t exist because nobody’s done it to you? Well, just wait, I’m sure they will.

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#11

Ok, so let’s hold off that hostility for a minute coz I’m trying to be polite here

I understand that it’s frustrating for people to dismiss your argument because they haven’t experienced it, but I’m not trying to dismiss you here. I’m saying that because I haven’t experienced it that I don’t see it as an issue yet and that I don’t think your argument is inherently wrong. If someone was demanding that Ghalt was OP and needed a buff, I wouldn’t be able to agree with the viewpoint either because I’ve hardly played him - doesn’t mean I negate their argument, just means I can’t agree with it. If you can post footage, then by all means do so. I’ll also throw down a few private matches with some of the heavier hitting characters and dump an ult or two to see how it goes. I’m quite happy to be proven wrong!

#12

It’s not hostility, although I’m sure there’s some frustration in there.

I keep collecting these videos just to show people things and it’s really frustrating to be told frequently that it’s just not an issue because it hasn’t happened to them personally.

I’m talking about a handful of times that it’s happened to me and not instantly been shut down… a handful out of several hundred games. No, it’s not a rampant problem at this point, but I’m not the only one who is running into it, and it is a problem that’s becoming more frequent.

Yes, I can go out of my way to counter it, yes, I can babysit my sentry based on enemy team comp (which is what I usually have to do to stop it) but I shouldn’t have to sit out of the game to stop exploits from happening to my team, that’s not any fun.

And I don’t know why people feel the need to chime in that things just haven’t happened to them… I get it, it hasn’t happened to you, that’s cool. It is happening to me and the OP and others. Maybe I’ve played a lot more games and am in a higher ELO bracket… maybe the community on XBOX has more people willing to pull this kind of stuff… maybe the characters you pick specifically deter them from trying it, I don’t know, but it’s an issue happening to me and others and we’re being dismissed by people with no actual input to the issue, which is frustrating.

So here I am having to go out of my way to provide proof to you that something multiple people are experiencing actually exists.
You’re essentially calling me a liar, which is insulting and, once again, rather frustrating.

So, yes, I realize that you’re not intentionally trying to come off as hostile, and I’m not either so I apologize if I did. I’m still frustrated, and I will get a video of it for you and every other nay-sayer tonight since they continue to tell me it just doesn’t happen to them.

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#13

It is possible in League , although much more risk involved since the towers are not brain dead there unlike our sentries.

#14

Fair enough, that’s understandable. I quickly and quietly exited your post earlier because I knew I had nothing more to offer the discussion to avoid being “that guy”

No, you don’t, because I didn’t ask you to go out of your way to provide video, you suggested the idea and I agreed that it would benefit the discussion. And I didn’t call you a liar, or even intend to insinuate such an insult. If you feel that way, then I sincerely apologise.

I am sympathetic to your complaint, even if I don’t understand it and as such, cannot be empathetic. Does it make more sense if I word it that way?

#15

No worries, man, I completely understand… I think you’re getting the fallout from my frustration with the situation all together… and a big part is the frustration involved in actually trying to explain to some people what is actively happening.

I’m not meaning to come off as hostile (really, I’m not! sorry) so yeah, I get what you’re saying, and I’m not trying to blow up at you for voicing your side of things, it actually helps me present the problem better, and I think a video of it actually happening should help. I’m just going to do it to someone tonight and record it, I believe it’ll illustrate the issue better than a wall of text can, which is why I keep saying “I’ll just record it.”

Anyway, yeah, man, sorry if I’m coming off rougher than I intend.

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#16

It’s all good, venting is therapeutic lol. I understand why you’re frustrated, communicating via text is difficult at best though so I just wanted to make sure I was getting my point across without sounding dismissive or insulting. Maybe only giving minions the ability to damage sentry shields is a viable counter…?

#17

Yeah, I’ve been thinking something like that, it’s rough because I don’t like the idea of doing it, I like the way the sentry works for the most part, but I don’t see how else to eliminate one player being able to eliminate a sentry over time with the way it works currently. Even if he can’t “kill it” before you catch him, he still shouldn’t be able IMO to gain his team the lead by just standing next to the right wall.

I think, honestly, that the first thing that needs addressed, honestly, is the announcement. It may not even be an issue after you can know what’s happening when they try it (honestly, I think that would really solve it) but as it stands right now, it’s definitely an issue unless you meticulously watch for it constantly.

I just really hope it doesn’t become more widespread than it is at this point, it’s just a really unfullfilling way to have to play games.

#18

Playing with 3 other friends last night. We all have pretty good stats, 100 hours in the game, etc. Score is tied 100-100 when thralls spawn. We clear out minions no enemies mid or on our radar. We make a push mid to get thralls, 3 of the Enemy team meet us there. We kill them, get mid thralls, grab the shards by the thralls…and then realize our sentry is gone. None of us heard a warning at all. I am convinced one did not go off, due to the fact that all 4 of us did not see/hear anything. The three enemies that we killed are dead, the other two are still alive. This means that basically in the time it takes to capture middle thralls two people nuked our sentry without it defending itself; and we got zero noticeable warning. I literally have no idea what happened to our sentry…

I’m pretty sure this is not incursion functioning as it should. I can also attest to getting a warning that our sentry is under attack at the very start of the game…this has happened a couple times. When there is obv not an attack as the game just started, etc.

I find meltdown much more enjoyable than incursion because of stuff like this. OM going invisible and backdooring us and just manipulating the sentry AI to where it can’t hit him but he can hit it, etc. I can appreciate a push and a tank taking all the damage or even a backdoor when they do this, but people just manipulating the AI to where they can attack it safely is just lame. And of course, if the alerts actually work, we teleport back and stop him, but after level 5 odds are he has gotten to the health and in close games this is enough to win.

Solution: no idea. Even if they made the warnings actually get your attention, opponents can still manipulate the AI to where they can atleast get to the turrets health without taking ANY damage.

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#19

See, and that’s my issue with it. The game-mode is “supposedly” about pushing minions… if they aren’t required to win, and, in fact, seem to do nothing more than pull players out of position so the “back door” can happen in the first place… then what is the point of the mode?

The announcement is the biggest, most prominent problem with it currently, is what I’m saying, and even if they had “meant” to include the option to back door a sentry, they obviously included an announcement that’s designed to tell you when your sentry is under fire but it doesn’t work.

I’ve had so many people say that it works fine, that’s why I started uploading clips of it not working…

Like here: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/V0LUM3/video/17773083
Where (like you were talking about) you can clearly see the sentry IS under fire, but there’s no warning at all.

And here: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/V0LUM3/video/17757691
Where the sentry is fine, nothing around it at all, but it’s throwing an announcement and flashing away.

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#20

Yeah. I think this is a real issue. Once people figure out it( the announcement) isn’t reliable, this will be the go to strategy. A coordinated team will just get three people to tie up most of the other team in a big team fight and the other two will manipulate the sentry just long enough to get to the health. With the current system, your almost sure to miss the announcement(if it goes off at all) in a big team fight and even if you do hear it, you’ll think it’s bugging out.

I think they need to improve the AI also, but that’s just me.

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