I’m curious to hear peoples thoughts on the change from parallel research used in HW classic where each additional research vessel up to the maximum of six would open up another lane to use simultaneously.
As apposed to the increase in research speed, which each additional research vessel now brings into play. A quick time check shows researching “fighter drive” with one vessel takes approximately 26 seconds whilst all six vessels complete the task in around 15 seconds. As this is one of the shorter researches to conduct the effect should be more usefull at the ends of the research tree rather than the beginning… I think ?
So if you could turn it back to the way it used to be at the press of a button would you ? and if yes why is that ?
In a heartbeat. The main reason being I think HW1R should reproduce the original’s gameplay as closely as possible, though I do think in multiplayer that the old system can present interesting options that the newer one doesn’t.
I prefer HW1’s research and build style to HW2’s. To me that’s always been the case, and I wish that HW2 used the HW1 system back when it was first released. Maybe it’s just nostalgia, as I can’t articulate a particular reason, but it was the same way in HW1 and in HW:C, and then HW2 was a radical departure.
I do miss parallel research from HW classic as it rewarded players with more efficient research the less ships you had dedicated to one tech. Using a stopwatch and some quick work in excel, I worked out the formula from HW classic to be something close to:
(Base research time) * (number of research ships ^ -0.75)
Fighter Drive base research time is 75 seconds and Corvette Drive base research time is 75 seconds.
Sequential research: If you dedicated all 6 research ships to focus on one and then the other, the total time it would take is approximately 20 + 20 = 40 seconds.
Parallel research: If you dedicated 3 research ships to each tech simultaneously, the total time it would take would be 33 seconds.
The amount of time you save with parallel research gets more pronounced if you examine 2+2+2 or 1+1+1+1+1+1 examples.
Unfortunately, parallel research in HW:R would be a bit less meaningful than it was in HW1 since Kushan/Taiidan are reduced to two build queues and capital ship balancing revolves around HW2’s “bigger is better” gameplay so outside of strikecraft tech, players are usually encouraged to focus research to climb the tech tree towards destroyers and cruisers.
I personally do want it back.
Not to be pedantic but Cataclysm was a bit of a hybrid. Beast could only research one tech at a time while Somtaaw had segmented parallel research trees depending on whether or not a player had built the appropriate research module for each tree - players did not have the option to stack research modules onto the same tech.
I prefer the old research and build. Not the UI, but the old way for each offered more options. I don’t understand why anyone would prefer the new way?? If you wanted to research the way it works now you could, or you could parrallel. With the old build system, you could parrallel build as much as you could afford, not limited to 2, again,unless you wanted to.
I’ve no numbers to substantiate it (read I’m probably wrong ) but it feels like investing in research vessels early doors with the Parallel queuing system gets you off the ground quicker as you grind through all the basic stuff but has less of an impact in the later time intensive research where the accelerated sequential system drives through them quite rapidly (comparatively).
If all you play is the single player campaign. your rarely put under sufficient time constraints to bother building all six vessels unless like me you got a little kick from watching the old space donut spin when it was fully assembled.
Whilst I don’t know how it would be managed. I think your right, seeing two evenly matched players with the same fleet type slugging it out with only the research method to set them apart would be pretty interesting to watch…
nothing wrong with that… Lets face it, that in a nutshell is the reason so many of us old gits rebought a game we first played a decade and a half ago.
@ratamaq one of the few things that bugged be about the first game was the way it pulled you out of the action when you entered the Build, Launch or Rsearch menu’s. If all they had one with this remastering was merged the information layout of HW1 with the semi transparent layout we see now. I would have called it a job well done…Sigh…Never mind.
Yeah. Focusing all research ships on one thing at a time will help you research a specific tech faster or help you climb a tech branch faster (in most cases).
But because of the sequential stacking penalty, you still get more total research done in the same time if you opt for parallel.
Yeah, it’s only relevant to multiplayer which is what my comments were based on.
And I really miss the donut spin. Made it seem like some hardcore science was going on.
I worded that badly, my intent was to say the method of building and research was better in the classic game but the UI interface was poorer as it pulled you from the action to use them. So agreeing with your point.
I prefer the classic HW1 method. Building additional research ships provided benefits in either speed or flexibility. The player decided. I think it provides more strategic depth.
HWR research just adds speed on diminishing returns. Another problem is that you can’t queue up research ship builds (unless they fixed that) since each research ship is unique and you can’t build the next one until you build the previous one. As a result, when I play HW1 races (which I haven’t done in MP for a while), I tend to just build one. The additional micro plus the lack of the benefit I was used to make it seem not worth it.
Reasonable balance discussion. If I could build more than one research ship at a time, maybe I could have more than 8 interceptors when the double fighter fac enemy shows up on my doorstep at 2:50 seconds with 6 interceptor squadrons. We wouldn’t want that would we?
Like I said, if they balance researching (to be faster for example) then I wouldn’t need to build more than one research ship at a time. This also means HW1 races wont be at a disadvantage when it comes to low starting resources matches.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with the sentiment that HW1’s research model was far better. The problem with HW2’s research model is that, while I liked the idea of ship upgrades, these upgrades did little to improve survivability and only seemed to be a resource waste. The only technologies I was interested in were those that gained new ships to build.
The main issue is that, because HW2 uses RU’s to pay for research, every mission in the game has had to receive a large increase in the number of RU’s present in the early missions, which makes it far too easy to build a ton of fighters that you wouldn’t normally expect until nearer Mission 6.
Early on in classic HW1, resources were really quite scarce, because most of the RU’s were supposed to have been used for the benefit of the Kushan and building the Mothership and Scaffold. This meant that early missions, like Mission 3, were meant to be difficult and needing powerful ships, but they’re far too easy in HW1R (there are reports that the scaler can cause an unreasonable enemy force too early on, which is game breaking and unrealistic).
So yeah, I totally prefer HW1 classic’s research model (I just recently completed classic over) over HW2. HW1 should be HW1 and HW2 should be HW2, the two should not mix because the former doesn’t work very well in the latter.