Shard economy changes to overgrowth: Good idea or not?

So after experiencing a handful of games tonight with the new changes, i do appreciate the change to the healing station area on overgrowth. this thread is not about that change. this thread is about the shard count changes. I have been trying to figure out what exactly the motivation was behind this. My best guess is that it has something to do with trying to get players to have to make wiser choices with their shards in regards to gear.

So, in effect, they are trying to indirectly limit the use of legendary gear in pvp. There is literally nothing in the world that would make me happier than this, other than perhaps what should be done. What should be done is just not allowing legendary gear in pvp. In a very casual setting, that kind of stuff is ok. but in a game that people always talk about going esports one day, and being considered seriously as competitive, there simply is no place for legendary gear with special properties and effects that are tied to pve content.

This is, however, not the thesis of this thread. What happened in the process is that they indirectly nerfed a very important role in mobas: the builder. Even with a shard collector that gives me over 2 shards per second, i always find myself struggling to have enough to do anything significant with. I’m forced to farm twice as long, nearly, do to able to do the same thing. i have had to switch one gear piece to a buildable cost reduction piece to try to curb the hit i have taken.

problem: shards were too plentiful making overpowered gear combinations far too common and viable.
goal: to make players choose more wisely how they will spend their shards and choose loadouts.
end result: players still get the same gear, they just have to wait longer to activate it.
drawback: builders received a major nerf
actual solution: remove legendary gear in pvp, or limit to 1 per loadout, and return the original economy in overgrowth and bring echelon in line with it

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Whilst I’ve yet to play a match in Overgrowth following the changes, I did take a peek at the map (I set up a private 1 v 1 match to do this). I was surprised that the large shard clusters they had removed were the ones by the cliff overlooking the double Thralls rather than removing the 2 large shards behind the shock turret in the middle area (though I guess if they removed these there’d be little reason to go in there). I noticed that they had changed some of the ground shards to smaller ones too.

I don’t think the shard reduction in Overgrowth is a bad thing. TBH I never had a shard issue in the map and usually had oodles of them. I run expensive gear (occasionally 1 legendary but mostly 3 uncommon ones with activations costs totalling around 2000-2500 shards). There always seemed to be shards lying around, large ones in particular, which I would then collect to build up turrets etc and to prevent the opposition getting them.

Reducing the shards seems to make sense, you can no longer have a team that so easily puts up buildables the moment you take them down as well as spawns wave after wave of giant minions. It’ll be interesting to see how much it changes the dynamic.

The reason, of course, that they made this change is to balance the shard economy with the other Incursion map, Echelon. Echelon was appalling for shards, there was only 1 large shard in the centre and insufficient small ones around the map. It was difficult to activate your gear and to build up defences due to this, and often I’d run shard generating gear just for this map to help (though shards were still insufficient). Now they have added 4 additional large shards and that will be a big improvement on that map.

Yes there was simply too much money on the map. It is possible to run three legendaries and be able to complete it before 15 minutes…

the problem there is legendary gear. idk why it is in pvp to begin with. the solution is to disallow legendary gear entirely, or one legendary at the most, not nerfing shards. nerfing shards destroys a classic role in mobas of the builder

I disagree. Legendaries are fine in PVP and as some people only play that and not PVE it would be unfair to exclude them. They aren’t game killing either and are balanced by their expense.

I played several Incursion matches tonight with some people, including myself, running one legendary. There was no issue with shards whatsoever, there were still plenty to build and rebuild defenses and bots, there wasn’t a situation where either team was scrabbling around for enough shards to build stuff.

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chances are that you do not really have much high level competitive experience in other games in your past. there is a legendary that, when all members wear the item, gives an extra 1000 total max health to everyone on the team. do you realize what it is like to have the burst damage of say a thorn with the health of montana? by definition, that is game breaking. do you also think that it is balanced for every character in the game having the capability to slow you with just their primary attack much, much more often than say phoebe, whose only ability is a slow field on almost triple the cooldown? you cant give everyone in the game a slow. it negates people that only have a slow, or no cc at all.

again, by definition, having character specific legendaries is the opposite of competitive. having random rolls on legendary gear is the opposite of competitive. needing to play story missions in order to acquire the gear is the opposite of competitive. i greatly respect your opinion, but if you look at other games that are considered to be competitive, literally without exception none of those conditions i have stated are present. those are the actual facts.

you can say that this is a different game, and you would be right. but being unique does not give a game the right to change fundamental laws of competitive play and still be considered competitive.

take destiny, for instance. destiny has sustained one of the highest twitch viewer counts, and active playerbase counts than almost any game in history. yet destiny has never truly been considered competitive, and has never been seriously considered for esports. why? because of the random properties and effects and tiers of weapons in the game.

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Gearbox is toying around with the idea of standardized gear and loadouts for ranked competitive gameplay. They are also thinking of perhaps creating Story only and Versus only gear. Maybe it can only be activated in Story/Versus or perhaps it can be ctivated anywhere but has bonuses that are only active in Story/Versus (like character specific Legendary gear bonuses).

For casual gameplay the current gear should be fine, aside from a few tweaks to the gear itself. I think the Legendary gear needs to be balanced so that it’s effectiveness is reflected in its shard cost. Some of the Legendary gear isn’t powerful enough to reflect the 1800 shard cost while some of it should cost far more than the 1800 they currently require. Plus the shard cost should also reflect the randomized stats like all of the other gear. Even some of the regular gear needs to have rebalanced shard costs as some of it is so situational as to be worth far less in most situations.

Before I forget I should ping @JoeKGBX so he can make note of these suggestions so he can pass them along to the developers. Hmmm… I could ping @Jythri as well as he’d best know what to do with this. I know @GVand does some work on the gear as well. Okay, I should stop pinging everyone now. I don’t want to be annoying. :confounded:

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this pretty much how i feel about it. the legendary definitely cant be in competitive play. it is literally impossible to make character-specific gear and have it all be balanced against other characters’ specific gear. i know it is a casual thing, and that is fine. i just wish more people that think they are playing competitively knew that rocking the legendary gear in pvp is not competitive

Valid points. I have never played in a truly competitive scene yet, only casual competitive which is what we have currently. The only character specific legendaries I have are those Reyna of Reyna and Oscar Mike which I don’t think are game breaking, I can’t comment on others.

Assuming that Gearbox does implement true competitive play in Battleborn then yes, loadouts do need to be fairer so that no-one has a game breaking advantage.

Anyway back on the topic of shards, I think that the current economy, legendaries or not, is now just right on both Incursion maps.

Worst idea ever. As it is stands echelon has hardly any shards and they wanted to match it that stage? Stupid if you ask me…

I think legendaries should be brought down to 1300 shards now.

I take it you’ve not read the patch notes or played Echelon since the patch?

Echelon has had 4 large shard clusters added, it has plenty now. Overgrowth has had 2 removed, it leaves plenty (it had too many before).

Not required now you know what the changes are. :slight_smile:

“Legendaries shouldn’t be used in PVP!!!”

So… then farm good legendaries to use yourself or setup your own team. It seems you are just angry (and many others) that you are on the receiving end of a well established team. There is nothing wrong with legendary gear AT ALL

God forbid other people play with teamwork and use gear that helps out their team as well as themselves
(For example I use a legendary that lowers the attack of the person I hit. Not only for myself but I’ll quickly hit an enemy who is kicking my ally’s ass so he can have a better chance at living)

I support my teammates with my legendaries. Don’t knock my playstyle out of the whole game just because a few don’t like it

Characters are too reliant on gear and thats an more of an issue now that they removed shards, which wasn’t necessary. They are making changes that are chasing players away

Why’s it more of an issue? It isn’t. I’ve played Overgrowth several times post patch and the number of shards is fine. There was no lack of them for either team, loadouts were activated, defenses built and rebuilt several times and giant bots were sent again and again. Also Echelon is also a lot better with its addition of shards.

These changes aren’t ‘chasing players away’.

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They removed way too many medium shards. What was the issue anyway? The fact that it takes twice as long to get gear was just a dumb move on GBX side. Echelon is still ■■■■. The map design was just not made for incursion. And so far all the decisions they have been making are chasing players away. Why do you think matchmaking is ■■■■ at the moment? No one is playing.

I’d say the biggest problem with Legendaries are a few ridiculously strong pieces. Not all of the useful ones are unfair. 1000 extra health for everyone on your team on the other hand… It screws with balance.

Legendary drops are completely RNG based. You can’t Git Gud and get legendaries. It’s just complete luck. Gear wasn’t supposed to give you an unfair advantage over someone who doesn’t have the gear you have, but some Legendary gear atm can achieve that.

I disagree with your opinion, they only removed 2 medium shard clusters and changed a few of the smaller ones. The reason for doing this was to give a balanced economy of shards in the Incursion maps. Overgrowth had way too many. Echelon had too few (hence them adding 4 large shard clusters).

Echelon map design is a completely different matter to what is being discussed here which is the shard economy changes (they made some tweaks to the map too, namely the pillar that people complained about).

The patch has only been out a day or so, I doubt very much that you have evidence to show that the changes to the shard economy is driving players away (though if you do have solid evidence, feel free to share it).

Matchmaking is a completely different issue, nothing to do with shard economy. Some people have issues (particularly those in Australia and those on PC). Others don’t (such as those on PS4/XBox and/or those playing in regions such as Europe).

you completely misunderstood everything i was saying. this isnt a matter of preference. this also isnt so much what a “few” want either. it is what the competitive community wants. they can have a casual playlist for casual players that want to do casual things. then they can have a competitive playlist for competitive people.