#1

so we finish 1 skilltree at 31 right?
this means we fnish a second tree waaaaay faster then we propably should
we also have the problem that some skills rly arent worth it even though you go down the entire tree for them

also this means they bring mahyem lvls / op lvls to increase lvls without giving skillpoints
it was a talking point we had from them about how to increase lvls without giving skillpoints

so what if you have a skilltree that required even more
4 skills per lvl, with 2 playstyles per tree and down so you reach the end way later but can still specialize
so you need say 10 more points to finish a single tree to the capstone
that and you are left with like what 7 points to invest somewhere else

now what would that mean
we dont need mayhem and op lvls and can have a better way to balance new lvls
the existing trees will be better for a longer time

how could this look in practice?

so i take moze for this
id mix half of bottomless mags with demolition woman
what would i mix in, all the skills around bonus speed / mag / IB bonus dmg / fire dmg

so demolition woman becomes a big tree that can become full mag tree or full IB tree
if you invest only in the mags you take a while to get down the entire thing and dont get much more but its way more concentrated in one tree

whats lef tof the mags tree could be fused together with shield of retrobution tree
and id add mobility to that, all the movement skills
this would make the tree about movement and shields, staying alive
skilling down this tree would make you alot faster and make you play around movement, running jumping, and shields going up

with the last tree beefed up a bit you could play this game til lvl 70 and not need a new tree

this would also be a bit better for stuff like fl4k where some pet and crit skills arent in one but very weardly packed together so you have to skill down in this weard way and cant focus on one thing

again you just invest more points in one thing but get more specelization out of it

once you add more skillpoints and maybe a new tree you get more options to play
plus with 4 skills per level you have more options to spec with remaining points

#2

imo that would just make things unnecessarily complicated and mean more bad skills. At a certain point you’d just be making skills to fill a quota and that never ends well.

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#3

so basically
im saying mix two trees together and have linger trees that concentrate
like have fl4ks pet skills that synergize the most together for example
yous ay no that makes it too complicated

wtf?
right now we have to skill in all trees to get a single point that is for pets for example instead of 1 -2 trees

#4

The problem with how yougrouped BM/DM and another half of BM/SoR is too much specialization. If one tree is JUST jumping/movement/and shields, there will be a certain point where going down it is meaningless since you’d be neglecting the other tree.

If I have to go down BM/DM I would be actively missing out on healing skills. The good thing about the 3 tree system is that you can specialize while sprinkling in DPS/healing/etc. skills to make it worthwhile. If all the damage was put in one location, why would I bother ever speccing into another tree?

All skills in a tree require synergy, this is true. But having other skills that synergize across trees is what makes building them interesting. Take a look at Jack, the reason why that class is one of the best is how skills across trees work together. Each tree has its own focus and synergies, but each tree feeds into each other. Zer0 has 3 trees but death mark works great for both sniping and melee. If the most synergistic skills were all in the same tree and required the same investment, I wouldn’t need to make interesting build choices to get to the skills I want.

I will admit though, dead skill points to get down trees is a problem. That’s something you can fix by making those skills worthwhile across any build or having other skills in the same tier.

that’s not a problem with having >2 skill trees, that’s a problem with the skills themselves.

#5

the current skilltrees are 100% proven to be not deep enough or we have to many lvls at release
pick one
gearbox themselves said they have issues with this / trying to find a way to give strength without giving skillpoints due to ppl asking for lvl increases

thats a fact
so to make the trees deeper and give more options doesnt mean you need to go into another tree it means however that skills can have more impact instead of just mag regeneration at last capstone

#6

Really?
We now have an extra tree but with the same number of skill points so choosing where to allocate them is taking a wee bit more thought. The fact that many folks ask for builds either here or reddit, or in fact via youtube shows that they seem deep and complex enough, if not too complex, especially as some synergies are not obvious at first.

On another note, heading straight for the capstone isnt always the best bet anyway. Take zane with 2 skills as an example. One may need to go say half way down 2 trees to get the desired augments for both before even entertaining a capstone. I was using an iron bear moze build for a while that scattered points across all trees with zero capstones.

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#7

i like how you say its cool how we have 4 trees now
but when the mayhem thing nsd op lvls and so on where a thing we always had 3 which we finished far too fast

sure you could also START THE GAMES LIFECYCLE with a 4th tree and say thats for lvl 50 and from there we go forward and dont need this weard ■■■■

but in a future game we could easily have more options per tree per level to go through
you cant even say the borderlands trees are very good they are basic asf
there are many games who have better abilities that could totaly be implemented as skills in a tree that make a bigger difference

sure STATS are cool skills
but then we might aswell make guardian ranks stats only
and give skills more SKILLS speak actual gamechanging abilities we do have some of these already like
dont consume ammo
more melee range plus resets if you kill with the override
autobear
mozes skills that increase dmg with lower health, or less fire rate but more dmg
more splash radius / granades can crit

we might aswell shorten the trees a little but put alot of the pure stat skills into guardian ranks and make those a bit better for respecing

#8

Better idea… BL4 should have a spider web skill tree that lets you go from branch to branch and get a wider variety of skills! Think something like in FF games or other RPGs. Your idea is neat as well though.

#9

I like this. Makes me think of even more trees a la skyrim.

#10

yeah a more open skilltree could be amazing
we could propably have alot more interesting builds if the system didnt rly on the max lvls being low to make a difference

but if its a spider web id say we have 3 entry points or 4 where we begin, and we can get from there anywhere we want in the tree if we like

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