Vaughn becomes like he is in this game towards the end of tales
Nah man, he is like that in Comander Lilith DLC in BL2.
Sure he is a “bandit” leader by the end of TFTB, but his behavior is nowhere near what we saw in BL3…
I thought it was a missed opportunity to not have Tiny Tina as a VH. I mean she could have been the Moze character given her penchant for explosives.
Tina is cannonfodder. Tannis is adorable, ■■■■■■■■, smart but she doesn’t spice to be a leader. Sanctuary needs a new boss after Lilith. They made Ava for this. You can learn her background with a sidequest which that makes her “generic” leader story. She also getting the Sanctuary at the end game.
Actually BL4 can use tina as Vault hunter. Tina - CL4P’s new “friend” bot -Lorelei -Clay Sounds fun. I guess someone made a poll for this.
Yeah but story wise Ava has proven incompetent to be a leader over and over (spoiler alert):
- She is the reason Maya got killed
- She never listens (see above)
- She is super selfish
- She doesn’t try to contribute something to the group
- She rages a lot throwing a tantrum every time (even for a child)
And I haven’t seen any player yet who actually likes her
Are these attributes for a leader?
I agree - even Tannis would have been a much! better choice for a leader. At least she keeps a cool head and knows how to think. Plus she is a siren!
While I hate the writing of Ava SO FAR, let’s not forget it’s merely a script and that she can be written in a totally different way from now on.
Let’s not forget either that Clap Trap is technically the most high ranked officier now.
On Pandora, it’s actually weird if something’s not exploding.
Replace “Pandora” with “this galaxy,” and that’s what I see in my mind’s eye.
It kinda baffles me that so many people can’t see the progression in Ava’s character. Toward the end, she’s not the same person she was in the beginning.
As far as Tina being used instead - TOTALLY different character, the script would have had to change drastically. Besides, Tina is a bomb expert, making her a siren really doesn’t fit.
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Maybe I am mis-remembering.
But I seem to recall the big deal about BL3 being set 10+ (or whatever; cannot remember) years after Bl2, and them hyping up Tina as now being older, more mature, more involved with the VH’s.
While I was not implying that Tina should have Ava’s role in this story (ie, Ava’s dialogue lines). Only that Ava’s time in this story, really should have been given to other well established characters.
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100% agree with this.
Such a waste of other character we have come to know in past games.
Can you base this off more than two of her dialogue choices?
People can change, younger people have a better time doing so… But the confidence you have in her ability to grow up still seems unfounded to me. It’s really still a wait and see matter at this point - because when she’s only acted decent at the last vault (let’s not forget her enamor with the vaults Btw) it’s hard for me to agree there’s been any progress with her character.
I don’t particularly like Ava as a character. The “Angsty Orphan Girl Badass” is a bad enough cliche, but they made her especially whining and disrespectful for the whole first half of the game.
Even her “arc” is basically to go from “Annoying Teenager” to “Slightly Less Annoying Teenager who they made Captain because reasons?”. It’s not a particularly interesting or compelling arc, but it’s one of the only actual character arcs in the story, so hey, they tried!
But I’ll tell you. There was one moment where I absolutely loved Ava. I don’t even remember which mission it is, but you come back and report to Lilith, and Ava starts the conversation with somethink akin to “Ya! The Vault Hunter’s back!”
She sounded so excited to see me. It was one of the first and only times in the story where I felt like I was acknowledged in any way as the person getting ■■■■ done. She was one of the only characters who, through voice acting alone, made me feel appreciated for being the hero. Instead of just barking more orders at me or giving me a generalized platitude, she sounded excited to see me. And in a game where you feel like a 3rd wheel or total tool 80% of the time, it stands out.
So, yeah, not my favorite character, but I’ll give them a chance to flesh her out, especially if she continues to at least pretend that I’m actually the hero of the story.
I’m actually glad they didn’t. I’m sure it was a budget thing and that’s why she didn’t have a more prominent roll, but with the quality of the story telling this go around in very glad that she was not more prominent.
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Hmmm Tina is a bit crazy, might not be a wise decision to have her with power in the Crimson Raiders.
I think people need to actually pay better attention to the story. While Ava complained a little in the beginning, she wasn’t whinny. She was actually funny and somewhat confident with herself especially while picking locks and looting, which she is good at.
Yes she got whinny and blamed Lilith after Maya died, but it is common to misplace your anger and sorrow when you witness such dramatic events. However after Lilith gave her time to grieve and Tannis and others talked to her over the course of the game she regained control of her emmotions and finally started listening and being more helpful.
Heck if you listen closely near the end she said Tina gave her the explosions which means that behind the scenes Tina helped Ava come to terms with what happened. Although if that were in an actual cutscenes instead of just casually mentioned, people would just find something else to complain about.
Also Ava didn’t kill Maya, Troy did. Ava didn’t set her up to die the plot did. Also Ava didn’t get Mays killed, dedpite being where she shouldn’t have been. Maya got Maya killed.
Who sent the Vault Hunters ahead into the vault so she could talk to Ava in private? Maya
Who moved Ava away from the vault portal? Maya. However had they stayed near the portal one or both of them could have stepped into it to get the Vault Hunters for backup.
Also Maya chose to take Troy hostage and try to talk her (and Ava’s) way out when it had already been proven that the Calypsos had no problem killing people just because they felt like it. Obviously she spent way too long in the influence of the pacifist monks.
That act is what put Troy into the position to try to break free of Maya’s grasp, and accidently discover that he could drain powers from Sirens other than his sister.
On a side, Ava always seems happy to talk to the main Vault hunters whenever we visit her on the bridge after the main story.
And since it tagged you even though I didn’t actually mean to respond to a specific person, I agree with you that she seems to be the only one excited that we continue to check in and grace her with our presence. Also sorry my response ended up so long.
Thanks for that ending disclaimer! I was about to be like “Whoa! I didn’t say that much about her!”
I felt that she and her arc were poorly written. I’m sure if you pour through it for meaning, there’s a lot there. But I shouldn’t have to interact with the Borderlands story like I’m analyzing Shakespear to be able to interpret character growth.
But, as I ended with, I’m okay with her, in the sense that she’s a kid now and there’s a lot they can do with her/change about her/grow her in the future. Her conveyance of excitement at me and treating me like a hero, unlike most of the rest of the cast, gave me a soft spot for her.
Just hope they don’t mess her up.
Also, to the original topic. Do not give Tina Siren powers, or we will all die.
Yeah I clicked the thread reply button and didn’t discover that it somehow tagged you specifically until after I submitted it. So upon seeing that I figured I better add a small disclaimer, but before I did I noticed your observation that Ava was genuinely excited that we took the time to say hi. So I used that whole last paragraph /disclaimer to mention I noticed that as well. As such I find myself popping into the bridge just to say hi to her and bring a smile to her usually sad face, and yes I know it is weird since it is just a videogame but then I am weird so all is good. Lol
Siren tina… “executing phase boom”
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Well, one thing I’ll say that kind of agrees with you, is that no one can tell what the Borderlands writing team is going to do. They might ignore any progress in her development (as indicated towards the end of the base game) and make her just as annoying as she was to start with.
I hope they don’t do that. I get Ava (I think), I get making her annoying and childish, but she’s not CL4P-TP annoying, there’s no sense of humor or fun in it (if I can make such a statement about something as subjective as humor).
But, yeah, I think we can reasonably infer that she’s growing up. It’s what kids do.
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