#881

So the conversation comes back to point that despite Steam is in this dominant position, it’s still good service that isn’t taking advantage of it’s customers. A new fresh perspective brought by Sljm, thanks.

1 Like
#882

Cool it with the snarc, please.

If you guys don’t feel the conversation is productive, you could always stop.

2 Likes
#883

I disagree. I mean, I don’t think Steam is a bad product, but it provides the same level of service I get through any other storefront. I don’t use most of its social features (especially not anymore).

And of course it takes advantage. It invented Trading Cards that give zero material bonuses except Valve get a cut of every transaction. It even gated Friends List progression behind account level, which isn’t exactly helpful to people with large online friend networks (which was an issue for me, once upon a time). I mean, the list goes on, but Valve extracts a lot of money out of Steam that doesn’t necessarily benefit the consumers.

These are the kinds of things people are worrying about Epic theoretically doing. And you’re right to worry. But Steam does those, right now.

Also this is all a completely separate point to whether or not its considered a monopoly. People liking using Windows didn’t excuse Microsoft from not giving a choice of browsers (up til the EU ruling that mandated they should, to avoid the anti-competition inclusion of IE as the default browser).

5 Likes
#884

I don’t know if it was mentioned here already, because i’m new in this thread and over 1k posts are definitively tldr. But BL3 is not completely exclusive for EGS, you also can preorder it on the 2k games store. Because i don’t like the EGS (like most users here as it seems), this will be the way of my purchase.

Or is there any reason to distrust this store too?

€dit: Oh i just saw it: It’s just a downloadcode for the Epic Store. :frowning:

1 Like
#885

By taking advantage I mean one sided features and services that doesn’t benefit customer in any way. Steam market place too is something that both sides benefits from. I’ve attained lot of wallet funds through getting ingame drops(CSGO) and trading them on steam market. So I’ve gotten lot of games for free and I keep slowly accumulating more funds.

What features are on Steam that doesn’t give any benefits to customers? I mean nothing comes in my mind right now. Steam have problems with unfinished/broken features and other issues, like the problem with workshops getting flooded by spam entries, forums getting spammed, problem with people using interest in steam market and steam chat as gateway to scam people. Plenty of problems. But those aren’t directed by Steam, those are users exploiting opportunities that platform provides.

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#886

I already explained how Valve created Trading Cards. I don’t really want to keep on trying to convince you why these things are bad. I’ve said my piece, and I don’t want to make you feel put down (even by mistake).

The one final thing I will say is this: if a system is exploitable, then the burden of fixing that falls upon its creators. Steam is just as responsible for allowing these systems to be, as the users are for exploiting it. Folks criticise Epic for poor security, the same applies here.

#887

I’m responding to your point that Steam takes advantage of users with trading cards as example, which to me seems like fair business, where both sides can benefit from it. The idea of “taking advantage of” is painted uniquely in context of this overarching topic, where EPS is not giving any benefits to customers whatsoever with this exclusivity deal.

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#888

Alright then. I disagree that it’s fair business. I don’t think it even qualifies as business; I’m not paying for a Trading Card service here.

You used CS:GO items as an example for this case, when that isn’t actually how Trading Cards work. Not even touching crates, keys and so on. Trading Cards work by offering you half of the potential drops required to make a set for one game (rounding down, if it’s an odd number). That’s it.

Your only hope from then on is accumulating pennies from Steam Sale cards / inventory items (literal pennies) or the very infrequent booster packs to try and round out a single set, a level of which on a badge grants you 100XP towards your profile.

You can get additional bonuses during sales from spending in the Store, to the tune of a bonus card (or booster pack?) per $10 spent.

I don’t really call that fair business, personally. I get no benefit out of Trading Cards. They sell for literally pennies, the cut Valve gets from each sale often exceeds what I make on it (£0.05 is what most event cards go for, the cut is what, 2 or 3p?).

Now, crated items in games in CS:GO and TF2 are a different story, but are also reliant on investing money in keys to unlock randomised items (a la the lootbox controversy that games like Overwatch are being investigated for) that might be rare enough to be worth selling. DotA 2 as well, forgot about that one.

And this is just one part of Steam that drives money Valve’s way. The only advantage to the consumer of regular Trading Cards (as Foil cards are very, very rare drops, and Booster Packs don’t drop that often either in my experience, speaking as someone who maxed out the Borderlands drops years ago and have probably less than 5 Booster Packs across BL2 and TPS for my time in them both) is XP for your Profile, and the occasional badge level for one game.

Am I being unfair? Am I being too harsh?

I worry I’m getting way off-topic, which is also why I didn’t want to get too far into this.

#889

In what way is increasing steam level neccesary and not entirely users free choice to engage into it? I sell all my trading cards.

#890

If you want more friends on your friends list?

It’s great that you manage to ignore the entire system Valve have built your Steam Profile around, but 25p per game (let’s say) is hardly raking in the cash either. It’s certainly not “fair”.

I’m personally not bothered by loot boxes in Overwatch. But I can see the criticism of them. Me not spending a penny and getting a ton of cool cosmetics over time, doesn’t mean that the system isn’t flawed.

Like I said, there is bias here against Epic where there isn’t against Valve. I can’t force anyone to examine that bias, and I don’t want to. I encourage folks to exercise their free choice in using a digital platform to buy their games, whether they choose to use Epic or not.

#891

Yes, this bias is called “context”, since we’re talking about BL3 as forced EPS exclusive.

#892

You’re not being forced to do anything. It’s your choice to buy the game. I don’t want to repeat myself anymore than I have, as you keep ignoring the answers to questions I give you (i.e. friends list limits forcing profile levelling), so I’m tagging out.

#893

I’m strongly compelled to buy game, for I am fan of BL and I’ve already decided that I’ll get my hands on game in one way or another. It being sold as exclusive on EPS for 6 months means that I have to sacrifice my experience either way, be it by buying the game on bad platform, or having to wait that extra time to get it on Steam, which I’ve decided on doing.

#894

I don’t play on steam, so please clarify something for me.

From what’s been said so far, there is a limit to the size of your friends list based on, in effect, how much money you spend on Steam (game achievements, you’d need to buy games for)? And this is not, somehow, an exploitation?

Getting occasional coupons hardly excuses such a thing in my mind. But then, I already disliked steam on principle without really knowing about its specific flavors of predatory capitalism.

#895

Here’s a series of reddit thread for the same issue discussed, hopefully it brings new insight and ideas to this thread, seems like the same thing just keeps getting repeated:

2 Likes
#896

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1184-UOZV-2743

250 friends limit by default, +5 per levelup, +50 for linking steam with facebook account. 250 seems more than plently to me.

#897

Honestly I never noticed a limit on steam for a friends list, however I’m not one of those people that send a friend invite to almost every person I get matched with in an online game and I’m not prone to accepting blind invites from people.

I remember tho at least at some point awhile back that there were a number of limitations on steam accounts that only had free to play content on them.

#898

To add to what has been said, I’d maxed the limit out by about 2010. Smaller online circles nowadays though, thankfully!

Nor does Epic appear to have this limitation (very little available information on that, though; Fortnite seems capped at 500 but I’m unsure if this applies to the Epic account in general).

#899

Randy Pitchford (@DuvalMagic) Tweeted:
@LilMcFlurry So this point is about comparing relative features, right? That currently Steam has features that Epic’s store does not? I think it’s a fair point and I’ll be happy to look at that point with you over a few following tweets. Please don’t respond until I say “done”. Okay? https://twitter.com/DuvalMagic/status/1117071520352751616?s=17

In which Randy gives his perspective on the Epic release. Some other tweets made at the same time are also relevant.

1 Like
#900

He absolutely has a point when he says that Borderlands 3 puts Epic under pressure. It will force EGS to get better. The problem with that is that Randy might not see the opposite perspective: Borderlands 3 as an exclusive forces* players to use the EGS which in turn might leave Epic with the impression of secured sales, no matter the level of features the EGS might or might not have.

*Yes I know that nobody gets forced to use any platform whatsoever, but for those unaware and for those with a bad impulse control the result will be the same.