#1

Just killing time reading threads and I just happened to think about something odd:

Tyreen could decide where her powers went. She wasn’t trapped in a Vault like Nyriad to keep them from moving on at random. Do you think she viewed them as a blessing or a curse?

I’m thinking curse. She embraced them, but how much of her posturing about her vampiric nature was a facade to mask how isolating and alienating it was? If that was the case, who would she want to punish by burdening them with her powers?

OK, to even have a chance to suss out a guess based on what we know, there are a few things I think we would need definitive answers on:

Can other Sirens hold multiple abilities, or only the Leech Siren? And if only the Leech Siren, can her ability be transferred to an existing Siren, since it can take from an existing Siren?

Can men actually inherit Siren powers if a Siren chooses them, or was Troy a fluke due to the conjoined twin phenomena?

Why am I even thinking about this???

Because I have an idea that’s spun out of my other ideas:

  1. Lilith didn’t just get her powers back, I think she got Tyreen’s as well.
    Parasites hook into a host, normally without their knowledge, and then drain them slowly over time, leading them to need more sustenance to maintain themselves, all the while feeding the creature lurking within.

  2. Tyreen’s powers were significantly oversaturated thanks to the Eridium energy Troy absorbed, that Tyreen leeched from him upon his defeat, and then the energy she leeched from the Destroyer’s Rift. That is why Lilith was able to Phase Elpis.

  3. Lilith Phased Elpis inside Eleezer, which was a vast enough space within space where the Vault of the Sentinel resided. She did this to save Pandora, but also knowing that she had inherited Tyreen’s power, if not some facet of the Destroyer’s as well, and the only way to keep the universe safe was to do as Nyriad had done, and seal herself away in the Vault of the Sentinel with Elpis.

That leaves Ava, Tannis, and Amara as three of the four possible Sirens, excluding the mysterious seventh Siren Nyriad’s writings warn about. With Lilith, arguably the most powerful Siren, out of the picture, now would be the an opportune time for these other Sirens to make a move.

There’s no one on Athenas to protect its Library of Siren history.
Nekrotefayo is no longer a secret, as both Maliwan, & the C.O.V. are aware of its location.
Atlas, Jakobs, & Maliwan are all recovering from the conflict, leaving Vladof, Tediore, Torgue, Hyperion, & Dahl in positions to try and exploit the Eridian technology left on Nekrotefayo.

They cast Cate Blanchett as Lilith. We’re talking Academy Award Winning Actress Cate Freaking Blanchett. They don’t land her without pitching a substantial story arch for her character.

So yeah, TLDR: What if Lilith got cursed with Tyreen’s powers and the power of the Destroyer, used that power to Phase Elpis into Eleezer to seal herself away and prevent those powers from escaping when she eventually dies, while also saving Pandora from being torn apart by Elpis opening the Destroyer’s Rift?

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BL4 Vault Hunter/Plot Wishlist
#2

Yeah this is big brain time. But joking aside, this is a really interesting theory that I’m tkk sleepy to comprehent. One thing is sure. This comment made me want Borderlands 4 harder than a baby wan’t its mama. Remember the ending from Borderlands the pre sequel? With the alien talking about a war? Yeah that’s the ■■■■ I wanna see. And a 7th siren. . . ooooh we have a good base for a good story.

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#3

Nyriad was the Seventh siren. Tyreen became the next Seventh Siren. So if your theory is correct and Lilith is still alive, she may now be the Seventh Siren in addition to her previous powers? That is a scary thought…

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#4

Are you 100% sure that’s how that was meant to be taken? I didn’t take it that way because she never spoke of herself in third person otherwise. I ought to revisit those audio files.

#5

From the transcripts of the recordings on the wiki, numbers 17, 30, and 31 seem most relevant.

(Emphasis added) So she is singular among all the sirens, and has a power that should only be considered for use as the ultimate last resort. The other sirens actively try to protect her from outsiders, and her existence/location was not widely known as the Eridians had to search for her.

I believe this refers to the effects of being able to leech life force as a way of amplifying siren powers. See for example Tyreen always being ‘hungry’ and consuming bandits (willing or unwilling) to sustain her. See also her brothers’ need to share in that leeched power in order to survive.

Nyriad was the one who sealed herself in the vault on Nekrotayo, which is where her powers transferred to Tyreen (who was conceived in that same vault).

Note also Jack’s certainty that only six sirens could exist in the universe at any one time. Obviously, there was/is a seventh. As best I can decipher the timeline Nyriad would have had to seal the Destroyer in Pandora before Jack’s rise to power and probably before Angel developed her tattoos (explaining his interest in siren law). With Nyriad safely sealed into the vault, and the other siren sisters apparently looking to protect the Leech siren (as such power could obviously be very attractive to galactic psychopaths), it makes sense that this was one bit of lore Jack could not have known. (I’ll also note that Maya’s book seems to have been hard to understand by anyone who did not have siren powers, although it did mention Nyriad according to the Ava/Maya echo recording.)

So yes, my head canon is 100% that Nyriad was the Seventh Siren.

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#6

Actually the book didn’t mention Nyriad, Maya just said it in her sleep. Ava overheard her while snooping. Maya didn’t know she had even said it, or who Nyriad was.

The Eridian Writings dealing with the Sirens specifically never note the number until the Seventh is mentioned:

Nyriad :link:

“[Nyriad] You. You, who hears me, eons after my time. I have set these words down, even as my mind fractures under the weight of what I have done. Find my words, and remember the their truths in my place. For I am the one who put the Destroyer in its chains. I am the who murdered the Eridians. I am Nyriad.”

Brighter :link:

“[Nyriad] When my atrocity was complete and I returned home, I found no family to rejoin. The others had fled. Our braid.”

Purpose :link:

“[Nyriad] As the Siren sisterhood, we were the keepers of many answers, but our own nature remained elusive. We never knew our origins, nor our purpose. In this way, we are still undeniably mortal.”

Braid :link:

“[Nyriad] I have never known a time without my sisters. Even when one passes and a new Siren receives her markings, she always finds her way to the sisterhood. It seemed the will of the universe that Sirens be together, our lives entwined like an unseen braid.”

Witch :link:

“[Nyriad] I am Siren. Like the Destroyer, my kind has been called by many names. Oracle. Angel. Witch. Rarely are the names used kindly. I used to hate the ones who feared us, believing them ignorant. I think now, after what I have done, I better understand.”

Hunted :link:

“[Nyriad] Sirens have been hunted for as long as they have existed. Hunted out of fear, out of jealousy, out of misguided greed. The sisterhood was our way of passing down the craft of staying hidden, and staying alive when hiding was no longer an option.”

Knotted :link:

“[Nyriad] No thread is ever truly cut. It can be tied to another, whether knotted by careful fingers or tangled by chance. Every Siren must decide what will happen when their thread reaches its end.”

Burden :link:

“[Nyriad] To inherit a Siren’s gift is also to inherit her curse. This is the choice of a Siren present with death–pass on the gift and burden someone worthy, or release it, and burden an unknown soul who has no idea that the entire universe is about to want them dead.”

Secrets :link:

“[Nyriad] With Pandora sealed, and the Destroyer chained within, the greatest of the Eridians’ secrets is put to rest. It would be folly for me to think, though, that this is the last of them. There are countless other wonders or terrors they hid across the stars before my time. For every Graveward, Traveller, or Timekeeper, there are surely a dozen more slumbering in forgotten Vaults.”

Warning :link:

“[Nyriad] You. You know now all that I know. This was an epitaph, not for myself, but for the world I knew. I have brought ruin to the Sirens, murdered the Eridians, and imprisoned a primordial force of the universe. Perhaps I have earned your hatred or your sympathy. But that is not why I write these words. I have told you the truth, no matter its hard edges. Before I can put my fractured mind to rest, I must pass one more warning. [Nyriad] You must never find the Seventh.”

FromDarkHell’s site doesn’t have the key writing for me, Brighter

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#7

I absolutely take that last entry as a reference to the Seventh type of siren - the Leech - of which she was then the current incarnation. I think that’s why she doesn’t say “You must never find me” - she knows she intends to seal herself in a vault where she will die and her power be contained. But that power must never find a new host, which is exactly what will happen if a female discovers and enters this vault. Enter Typhon and his wife…

Not sure if host is the right word btw, but I think you get the gist of it. The Leech is the most powerful siren because not only can she steal the life force from others, she also has the potential to leech her sister sirens and essentially become unstoppable. As Tyreen almost was (fortunately the New-U is canon for Vault Hunters for some bizarre reason!)

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#8

This does not really have anything to do with the topic of this thread or your post, but how have I never, until reading your above sentence, made the connection that the VH receives The Leech pistol as a quest reward for completing the quest where Tyreen “leeches” Lilith and is introduced as the/a antagonist?

I feel dumb right now for having never made the connection. “The Leech” describes both the weapon and the events of the story. I am ignorant LOL.

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#9

I just wish Gearbox had the enthusiasm and interest all of you do.

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#10

Your scenario is also true if she is just the sixth, who happened to be a more able fighter than the other five sirens at the time. Seems likelier to me than her being the seventh siren, which only gets mentioned once, in a secretive way. Also, leech powers aren’t necessarily that much stronger, just immoral - imo that’s what’s behind her second sentence.

The dialogue about the seventh siren just follows the formula of “we’re foreshadowing a new thing” too much. Then again, if there are seven sirens, I guess it doesn’t matter which is which, the point is that there’s an extra one out there. Although I suppose we can theorize about which one Nyriad considered so dangerous.

Writing some theories takes about 20 minutes. Making a game around it takes years. There’s always gonna be more of the former.

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#11

The only siren power that would matter right now is the one that controls time, to completely erase BL3 storywise.

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#12

Being able to move to an alternate dimension would do the same, which belongs to Lilith.

#13

I don’ t know if people read this interview with co lead writer, he clarifies some bit about sirens

What does it mean for a Siren to pass on? Do Sirens experience death differently from ordinary mortals?

Ultimately, whatever their metaphysical powers may be, Sirens are human. They die, whether it’s a bullet to the head or a tentacle through the entire torso. That said, Borderlands 3 answers a few questions about Sirens and poses even more. When a Siren dies, they are able to choose either to will their powers to another person or release them into the universe. As both Maya and Nyriad mention in different moments, a Siren can still feel the connection to the previous owner of their powers, stretching like a braid or a chain back into the past. They can also imbue their memories into objects and heal themselves from otherwise catastrophic injuries using Eridium. This is all to say that, for Sirens, death might be a little more complicated.

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#14

Nyriad being the seventh also opens up a new playable Siren and that should probably be the case in the end.

Also makes sense, as Tyreen could have ended the Siren sisterhood by leeching all Siren powers.

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#15

Although Lilith’s powers returned to her when Tyreen died, so I don’t think a Leech would permanently end the sisterhood. Presumably, if the leeched sirens were dead when the Leech eventually died, the powers would disperse and each find new ‘hosts’.

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#16

Sasha’s magic pocket watch?

Yeah we know. Believe me we know.

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#17

OK, so DLC6 put a fresh spin on both sirens and the plot of the main game.

spoilers for DLC6

Behind the scenes is a Guardian called The Seer, who has been manipulating events throughout the clash between the Raiders and the CoV. They appear to have been playing both sides off against one another, and frequently mention the ‘twin acausals’ (Tyreen/Troy) and other acausals (from context, Lilith & Maya, possibly Tannis too)

Specifically, it seems they are plotting to get all the sirens killed off as only sirens have the ability to alter (even shatter) the timeline, and the Seer seems to have some abilities related to foretelling and correcting the future.

Why? Is this another Eridian Guardian AI with a hint of rampancy, resenting the universe, or something else?

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#18

To be honest thanks to this “cliffhanger” I completely lost interest in the story from here on.

Each BL in the past hinted at a strong connection between Sirens and the Eridians.

That the Guardians completely ignored Lilith advancing deeper into the Eleseer vault made it even seem possible to me that the Eridians created them themselves.

Between the dozen rewrites and re-connects BL3 outright confirms that at some point they even lived among them.

And now GBX again turn completely around and make it seem like the Sirens are the mortal enemies of the Eridians (or atleast of the Guardians).

First we had The Watcher being an ally and now we have another sentient Guardian that implies we are suddenly their enemies.

Like what are they aiming at here a internal war between the Guardians? I get the feeling that with every new piece of lore they are just doing whatever they feel like at this point without trying to get the Borderlands story coherant again. BL 3 re-connects so many things already and then the DLC go their own way too, without really staying consistent with past titles nor the new BL3 timeline.

Seems like we‘re just some pawns for Guardian team good vs evil at this point, idk.

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#19

And then it turns out that the whole Borderlands universe was simply an echocast, which would be the lamest thing of all? I sincerely hope not!

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#20

This moment in Borderlands 1 was on, of as I recall, a few, moments where Angel seems to have some awareness of the future, or at least some plan as to how things are meant to unfold:

This actually makes it a lot easy to retcon Jack or The Watcher or Seer reaching out to her with information. The lack of Angel in The Pre-Sequel has yet to be explained and the only hint about what actually was going on with her between BL2 and TPS and prior to the Echoes in BL2 where she finds the Vault Hunters (Boarding Party in TPS repeats that same arch) is finding the chamber on Helios Fallen in the mission that I got the name of this thread from.