Sirentology 200 - A study in strangeness

[Isthiswill]

Precisely, and also Borderlands Ending + Credits - YouTube

I always took this to be a lead in to the Robolution DLC, but I also bought GOT version years after the fact so it made sense that way when I played the game and DLC straight through in order of release without having to wait for things to come out, Robolution being the last one.

Sidenote: I am pretty confident that we were supposed to think that Satellite was what eventually became Helios in BL2 & TPS. I say that because I started with BL2 and played the first few missions, then went back and played BL1 all the way through before coming back to BL2, and the silhouettes of the two are both the Hyperion H with the big spherical space in the center.
I immediately connected the two objects.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

I am pretty confident that we were supposed to think that Satellite was what eventually became Helios in BL2 & TPS

I never made that connection but it’s certainly possible. Wasn’t it only 5 years between BL1 and BL2? So TPS occurred like maybe 2-4 years after BL1? That seems fast to build something as big as Helios (demonstrated in TFTB), but maybe?

I assumed Helios was a pre-existing Hyperion asset and Jack mounted the Eye of the Destroyer in it and used it as a weapon afterwards. Secretly, without the knowledge of the Hyperion bosses - based upon the interactions with Tassiter (or whatever his name was) in TPS. My assumption was always that Jack was co-opting Hyperion assets for his own uses.

[Isthiswill]

Now seems like the time to go ahead and state a truth some might begrudge:

Stuff I've Worked On — Anthony Burch. sorry.

BL2 Lead writer for game and all DLC
TPS Lead writer
TFTB Consulted on entire season, wrote two episodes of the 5

Seems pretty clear, BL lost its Kevin Feige when he left.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

Hmmm, I just made a connection. Don’t we get to hear Jack kill Tassiter in an ECHO found in Fyrestone Ruins (or whatever it’s called - it’s been a while ) in BL2? But don’t we see Jack do that at the end of TPS? So perhaps TPS and BL2 happen closer in time than I assumed? There’s no way to know when either the ECHO was made or the cutscene occurred, but presumably immediately after the end-scene to TPS?

[jacksdemise]

They lost a LOT of key players with BL3, as well.
Struggles all around, it seems, and Gearbox isn’t great about learning from their mistakes.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

Seems pretty clear, BL lost its Kevin Feige when he left.

There are a lot of people who seem to dislike Anthony Burch, primarily (as I recall) because he said he never played BL1. I do not understand this position.

Before he left Destructoid (I believe it was Destructoid, not sure) and left to join GBX, I interacted with him a few times back when the internet was more “personal” (i.e., via email back and forth). I found him to be engaging and he seemed pretty sharp. I also used to watch the “Rev Rants” on his Youtube channel. They are very good and insightful even today, and were much more so for the time.

I have always found Anthony Burch to have been very good at his job to the extent of his involvement in the Borderlands franchise. I am not sure I agree with all of his politics and positions, but that has nothing to do with his writing and storytelling, which I have found to be excellent.

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

So perhaps TPS and BL2 happen closer in time than I assumed? There’s no way to know when either the ECHO was made or the cutscene occurred, but presumably immediately after the end-scene to TPS?

I would just assume they were old echoes, given some go back to Angel when she was very young, indicative that the recordings are of varying vintage, but that the last three occur after the Vault of the Sentinel was opened and jack was scarred.

But that brought up an important point, Mr. Warren, who Jack strangled mentions that Jack’s wife had warned them about Angel malfunctioning before she… and we don’t hear her fate. It seems to imply she was a scientist of some sort for Hyperion, but in the BL3 side mission that doesn’t come across as much.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

BL lost its Kevin Feige when he left.

I’d say you’re coming on a little strong there with the Feige comparison LOL, but I get what you were going for.

Having a “benevolent guiding hand” for any company or franchise that’s large enough in scope is very important.

[Isthiswill]

Oh snap, I am glad we went back…

they made another retcon in BL3 and I just let it slide…

Borderlands 2: Get to know Jack (Echo Logs #19)

Echo 4

Mr. Warren was in the middle of saying “before her disappearance.”

This particular Echo paints Angel’s powers as more chaotic than what eventually become canon in BL3.

Borderlands 3 - Childhood's Ends Side Quest ( Angel's Backstory )

Now, I could speculate as say that Angel’s mom didn’t die from the turret attack, or through some means of drastic measures (cybernetics) she was kept alive in some horrible state between life an death by Hyperion R & D?

That could actually explain the Tiffany mystery from Claptastic Voyage "I Wonder Who Tiffany Was?" ~Tiny Tina - circa sometime after Borderlands 2

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

So Tannis could use the Vault Key, why couldn’t Angel? Was she not using it on purpose, because she was opposed to Jack’s motives? Or was she truly unable? If she was unable, why can Tannis use it?

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

So Tannis could use the Vault Key, why couldn’t Angel? Was she not using it on purpose? Or was she unable?

We see her put the Graveward key together, but not charge it. We don’t see her charge a key until after she has already figured out how to drain the power from a defeated Vault Monster, and also absorbed the eridium from Agonizer and her Eridium Injector.

But also, she has had more time to learn and master her abilities with the help of Lilith, and possibly Maya.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

We don’t see her charge a key until after she has already figured out how to drain the power from a defeated Vault Monster

She is clearly going to charge and use the Vault Key at the beginning of BL3 in the Eridian mining camp in one of the very first missions of the game. Only she can’t because the Leech Siren drained it.

PS - Damn, I have played these games too much, I honestly can’t recall whether she does it or whether Lilith does it. But I think Tannis does it.

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

She is clearly going to charge the Vault Key at the beginning of BL3 in the Eridian mining camp in one of the very first missions of the game. Only she can’t because the Leech Siren drained it.

They were using that key to see the Map, I don’t think they were charging it. They only needed access to the map, and Tyrene broke it, so they couldn’t see where the next Vault was, or any of them. At least that’s how I took it to be. Once it’s fixed later in the game, they don’t charge it, they just activate it.

Another odd quirk to consider is that it makes no sense for the Vault of the Warrior to have a 200 year wait on it compared to the Vault of the Destroyer feeding tube. They would need the Warrior accessible at all times, and the Siren sisterhood didn’t want to have anything to do with Nyriad or Pandora.

@tysonyar

PS - Damn, I have played these games too much, I honestly can’t recall whether she does it or whether Lilith does it. But I think Tannis does it.

Lilith tries to use it when we first get it back before she lost her powers and could have charged it as well, and she doesn’t try to charge it, just use it. Then Tannis “fixes” it at the camp. That’s why Tyrene said we were going to fix it for her, hence “Thanks superfan.”

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

the Siren sisterhood didn’t want to have anything to do with Nyriad or Pandora.

While we’re at it, I understand why the Leech Siren is the most dangerous, but Troy phaselocked Elpis! The Sirens weren’t scared of THIS ability?

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

The Sirens weren’t scared of THIS ability?

That ability didn’t make the holder a killing machine by default.
And the holder of that power didn’t binge Eridium to boost it. Up until it was needed, Maya couldn’t/ had no clue how to use Eridium to charge herself up. So the potential had been untapped for generations probably, and knowledge of it was collecting dust.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

Also what IS eridium? Why is it a literal volcanic river flowing through Pandora? This has devolved into “lore questions I don’t fully understand” territory, LOL

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

Also what IS eridium? Why is it a literal volcanic river flowing through Pandora?

They never say, but I had my theories Borderlands 3 And Full Metal Alchemist - Not the Gun

tl;dr

Eridium is The Philospher’s Stone, made from the transmutation of lives and souls in massive numbers into an element of raw power.
That’s why the Eridians don’t exist, the whole of Pandora was made by transmuting them.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

I mean obviously Jack didn’t create eridium by drilling into Pandora. That chamber existed before he drilled there - someone put it there. Jack just found it and figured out how to refine it.

[tysonyar (Like a dumpster wrapped in sadness)]

@Isthiswill

That’s why the Eridians don’t exist, the whole of Pandora was made by transmuting them.

But that can’t be right, there are Eridian structures marking the pathway to the Vaults on Pandora. That didn’t happen by accident. The Eridians made them. Horse<-cart LOL

[Isthiswill]

@tysonyar

But that can’t be right, there are Eridian structures marking the pathway to the Vaults on Pandora. That didn’t happen by accident.

I would theorize that they sacrificed large segments of the population at different stages of the construction of Pandora. In Nyriad’s Writings she explains that it wasn’t done all in one fell swoop, but to seal it, it took the last of them.