Slow content release? Here are the numbers - Edited for a mistake

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 General Discussion
#1

So in another thread there was discussion that GB is releasing content (much) more slowly than BL2. – I’m not so sure about that.

EDIT - I had mistakenly put the release date for BL2 as August 20th 2012. That has been corrected. This new info puts things in a different perspective. I have also added the Pre Sequel dates.

The numbers:

Bl2 release dates and number of days from base game to additional content:

Borderlands 2 base game - September18, 2012
Captain Scarlet DLC - October 16, 2012 - 28 days
Mechromancer/Gaige VH - ~October 16, 2012 - 28 days
Circle of Slaughter - Creature Slaughterdome - December 12, 2012 - 85 days
Mr. Torgue DLC - November 20, 2012 - 63 days
Sir Hammerlock DLC - January 15, 2013 - 119 days

128 days in - Which is where we are for BL3
Later Stuff:
Psycho/Krieg VH- March 23, 2013 - 186 days
UVHM - March 23, 2013 - 186 days
Tiny Tina DLC- June 25, 2013 - 280 days
UVHM part 2 and Circle of Slaughter - Digistruct Peak - September 23, 2013 - 370 days
Bloody harvest HH - October 22, 2013 - 399 days
Wattle Gobbler HH - November 26, 2013 - 434 days
Mercenary Day HH - December 17, 2013 - 455 days
Moxxi Wedding Day HH - February 11, 2014 - 511 days
Hammerlock Son of Crawmerax HH - April 15, 2014 - 574 days

I don’t count Commander Lillith as a BL2 or a BL3 update as it was a bridge between them. If anything, I personally consider it content for BL3 that was tied to BL2. YMMV.

BL3 release dates and number of days from base game to additional content:

Borderlands 3 base game - September 13, 2019
4 weeks of events/anniversary celebration - ~October 1, 2019 - 18 days
Bloody Harvest - October 24, 2019 - 41 days
Maliwan Takedown - November 21, 2019 - 69 days
M4 difficulty - November 21, 2019 - 69 days
Moxxi’s Jackpot - December 19, 2019 - 97 days
Farming frenzy/Takedown scaled - January 16, 2020 - 125 days
Today’s date for comparison - January 19, 2020 - 128 days

The Pre Sequel base game - October 14, 2014
Doppelganger Pack/Jack VH - November 11, 2014 - 28 days
Circle of Slaughter - Shock Drop Slaughter Pit - December 16, 2014 - 63 days
Circle of Slaughter - The Holodome Onslaught - December 16, 2014 - 63 days
UVHM - December 16, 2014 - 63 days
Baroness Pack/Aurelia VH - January 27, 2015 - 105 days
128 days in - Which is where we are for BL3

Claptastic Voyage DLC - March 24, 2015 - 161 days
UVHM 2 - March 24, 2015 - 161 days

Please let me know if I missed any major events. I did not include the numerous hotfixes and patches to both BL2 and BL3 - but please realize both games have had them.

These are simple dates and the accompanying content. One may simply not like items (hello overly long Bloody Harvest) or argue that some things are less significant than others…

…but I do have to say, it’s not as though BL3 was dropped and then they didn’t give us anything for a long time.

EDIT: Now that I have the correct release date for BL2, it does seem as though we have less content at this point for BL3 than we did for a comparable amount of time for BL2. Not nothing, certainly, but a fair bit less.

It seems, though, that we have about the same, or more, than the Pre-Sequel (depending how you weight 2 vault hunters as compared to other content, lots of wiggle room in perception here), and are slated to get more content overall.

HOWEVER: a note that has come up since this original post. Some things are in the base game for BL3 that only came much later for BL2

(There are the three circles of slaughter in BL3, while those were added as DLC for BL2.
Also Mayhem mode and the ability to reset the game are comparable to the OP levels and UVHM2 later added in BL2.
I can’t think of a comparable Bl2 thing to the Trials.)

6 Likes
Dear Gearbox: Weapon Balancing is NOT helping this game's longevity
#2

Thanks for putting this post together. As you allude to in the bolded remark, I think the unfavorable comparisons between the content release schedules of BL2 and BL3 come down to the sense that the former had much more substantial updates at a similar point in time. Two full DLCs and a new VH are, by most standards, a lot more content than one DLC, two new missions, and a bunch of events that basically amount to changing some numbers for things like drop rates, mayhem modifiers, and raid scaling.

2 Likes
#3

I definitely agree with your point.

I’m not sure I agree with your opinion about the weight of the 2 dlcs and VH being more than what we got here, but I’m sure many will. (and I’m genuinely not sure. I’m not trying to be coy here).

And that was the purpose of the original post - to separate the facts (i.e. the release dates and accompanying content) from the opinions (i.e. the quote you pulled out).

#4

The Bloody Harvest was taken away and you can’t play it anymore. If I can’t play it then it’s not added content.

The other two are just patches to make scaling adjustments. They didn’t add one second of new content.

So, really, the only new BL3 content that’s been added that you can play right now is the Maliwan Takedown and Moxxi’s Jackpot. One boss raid and one DLC compared to the two complete DLC Campaigns (And only 2 weeks away from a third complete DLC campaign in BL2) plus an added Vault Hunter

Patches that fix broken things are NOT added content. They are patches, even if they are called an “event” by the developer.

7 Likes
#5

That’s a fair point about Bloody Harvest, but only partially.

I certainly got a good 2 months worth of playing out of it, and I killed Haunt enough times on two VHs for the achievement (so > 50 times)

That’s a lot of gameplay. I put more hours into that than I have into entire other games, even sizable games. I’d say the actual event, the content total, was probably about equivalent to one of the headhunters from BL2.

Plus I still have the items from that, and while I haven’t messed around with a terror build (either then, when there were ghosts everywhere, nor now), I could do so, even now.

But, I definitely do agree on one of your points. I wish that event had been more “cordoned off” from the rest of the gameplay anyway (would have made it less annoying that it was so long) and then they could have left it to be playable all year long, similar to the holiday themed headhunter addons in BL2.

2 Likes
#6

I’d argue m4 is as much content as UVHM - getting extra levels. It’s not programming “work” per se…just a little tweak that adds new diversity to playing.

I’d say it is content, but minor content similar to extending the level cap.

The events “that fix broken things” are only that if you choose to look at them that way. If you don’t think they are broken, then the events are fun bonus things. That all depends on your opinion. You do make a valid point that they are not necessarily “content”, though.

I agree that patches to balance or fix the game are not content…they’re necessary upkeep.

#7

Sure but what about people picking up the game now after the fact? You can’t compare permanent content to a temporary event. And you also can’t compare something like scaling and changing modifiers to a DLC or new VH. Not even fair at all in either of these 2 points.

1 Like
#8

Well, you CAN compare them, but one (the temporary one) is certainly weaker, I’d agree with that in a heartbeat.

That said, it is supposed to be back next year (to my chagrin unless it’s much shorter).

And I’m not saying scaling and changing modifiers DO compare to a DLC. Though I do think it is fair to compare the release of M4 to raising the level cap. (Content, but very minor content, that changes the game meaningfully).

I want to be clear that these are not 1 to 1 comparisons I’m making. OF COURSE a DLC is much more content than a temporary event of additional eridium or making rare spawn become guaranteed spawn. Agreed.

1 Like
#9

Yes, you did, and I did, but someone who got the game for Christmas can’t play it.

As for M4, it didn’t add a single thing content wise. Not only that, but it was released as part of the Maliwan Takedown, so trying to call it separate DLC when it’s just a patch that was included in the Maliwan Takedown launch is misleading at best.

It most definitely is NOT separate DLC.

And neither is any rescaling, unless you want to start calling weapon nerfs “added content”. That’s all nerfing a weapon is, right? A scaling adjustment. So, if adjusting the scaling of the Maliwan Takedown is added content then nerfing the flakker should be called added content too, right?

2 Likes
#10

Name 1 single thing that this “Farming event” gives me that I couldn’t get without it.

Go on. Name one single actual added content. New level, new weapons, new enemies, what’s been added that wasn’t there before?

The answer is NOTHING, which brings me back to my original point. Borderlands 3 as it sits today has only had the short Maliwan Takedown raid and a single DLC campaign added, where BL2 had 3 full campaign DLCs plus an entirely new vault hunter added in pretty much the same time frame.

4 Likes
#11

Until next October, when they can. But, yes, it is weaker for current players in terms of availability than the headhunters were…but not in terms of content. I’d say it is better in terms of content (new boss, the ghosts, the terror mechanic/anoints) than Moxxi’s Underdome DLC from bl1 which was basically just a bunch of Torque Slaughter levels.

I reiterate that M4 is very minor in terms of content. However, it permanently provides a new option of how to play the game (and though it may change when they revamp Mayhem, that doesn’t make that statement untrue). Was it epic or even complicated programming? No, just like raising the level cap. It is content. It is minor content.

If having it be free and coming out on the same day as the Takedown disqualifies it or makes it “part of the Takedown”, then doesn’t the fact that Gaige was a preorder bonus that came out (or was supposed to come out if they didn’t leak it early by mistake) with Scarlet’s DLC also disqualify that? Not saying they are even close to equal in terms of amount of content; clearly a new Vault Hunter is much much much more.

1 Like
#12

No, in my opinion. Maybe it’s because I’m not as epic a player as others, but for me, I couldn’t beat it until they scaled it. So it provided something to me that was previously unavailable. That’s not the case with nerfing the flakker.

Now, is it on the same level as releasing a headhunter or even if they released, say, a 4th Slaughter? No. It’s a very minor thing.

That’s part of the key here. I’m not saying each of the items for BL3 are equivalent to each of the items for BL2. I specifically said that it could be argued some things are less significant than others.

I liked _neuron’s point about that.

I’m of the opinion that in total, I’ve gotten about the same amount of new stuff so far as I did for BL2. Hell, you could even say that Mayhem mode AT ALL is essentially a DLC compared to the original game for the rest of the borderlands, where having scaled difficulty and loot only came later on as DLC, but instead of holding off to release it as DLC they included it as part of the base game.

I acknowledge that there are many who don’t agree or feel the same. That’s why I made the original post. I was hoping to clarify exactly what we’ve gotten. Whether people think something is or is not content is certainly a reasonable debate.

#13

So everyone who gets tired of this game before next October will never get to play it, but you STILL want to call it added content?

You are a ridiculous apologist. To the point where you’re going to sit here and practically lie to try to make some false claim defending the game.

FACT:

M4 is NOT separate added content. It’s not even added content, but if it was it was part of the Maliwan Takedown release. Calling it separate added content is a lie. It’s not, and you know it, so stop pretending like it is.

And if you actually believed that’s added content that should be listed separately then why did you not list UVHM as separate content for BL2? I detect a lack of consistency with your claims here.

Content that cannot be played is NOT added content. There’s nothing there to play. Nothing = No added content. PERIOD.

FACT: BL3 has only had Maliwan Takedown boss raid and the Moxxi Jackpot DLC as added content since it’s release. PERIOD. That’s all it’s had.

BL2 had two, and if you wait a few more days THREE FULL DLC CAMPAIGNS by this point in it’s life.

FACT: BL3 has less than half the added content BL2 had in the same time frame. Especially if you start adding the hours of gameplay and compare the time it took to complete Scarlett’s or Torgue’s DLC to the time it takes to complete the Maliwan Takedown. Maliwan is a single raid. Less than an hour of content. You want to call that equal to a full DLC campaign?

5 Likes
#14

I think this really highlights just how little we’ve gotten in terms of newly created created content, assets, etc. compared to the same point in BL2…

I wonder if the Bloody Harvest event was so long to mask the lack of any other significant update while it was active.

6 Likes
#15

The opportunity to reliably fight rare spawns.

I know that’s not what you meant, but it does give us that. Now one could argue that they should always be guaranteed and they shouldn’t exist as rares. That’s fine…but that’s a change from the way they designed the game. I actually would agree with that…but that’s not the way things are.

You and Kab make a good point about Bloody Harvest being time limited. And for rare spawns, to most of the hardcore community, it’s just annoying that they’re rare when we want to farm them. But to the very casual player (i.e. most people overall who will play the game) they might never see them. This is a potentially meaningful change to those people.

I think you’re stretching here. I don’t think it’s reasonable to pretend the Bloody Harvest event never happened. You can argue that it was “weak content” because it is no longer available, but we definitely got it and played it.

That and saying 3 full campaign DLCs in pretty much the same time frame isn’t quite fair either. In 20 days if we don’t have a DLC, then such a statement would ring true.

And, if you consider 20 days a rounding error, then if they drop a DLC 40 days from now, it’d be just as close to the Hammerlock drop date (rounding down) as you are currently rounding up.

1 Like
#16

Ideally, but that’s dependant on Gearbox releasing the same content again. It’s equally possible they’ll learn from the event and release new content that’s similar but adapted, making it a new item, not the same one.

M4 definitely counts (IMO), but it’s far less than UVHM which was a level increase plus an additional playthrough of the game plus the option to reset your playthrough, which hadn’t been possible before.

I’d consider scaling events to be events, not DLCs. If you have to use an event to make DLC usable, that’s badly made DLC, but it doesn’t change the fact that its a DLC and an event, not 2 DLCs.
Like the loot hunt event on B2, which was a limited time to get better loot, and not permanent.

If it’s in the base game, it’s not DLC. To be fair, its an improvement to the base game of B3 over the base game of B2, but that’s all.

Totally agree. It’s difficult to judge different DLCs. All we can do is compare the number of DLCs and when they were released. I agree with you that B3 has had more added in the same timeframe, but I also feel that much of those additions have been lesser.

2 Likes
#17

I can see I’ve upset you to the point you’re calling names and accusing me of lying.

It isn’t my intent to be disingenuous or troll.

As I’ve said, I’m not equating M4 to Tiny Tina’s Assault on Dungeon Keep, for example. That’d be absurd.

But a new difficulty level, is, in my opinion, about the same amount of content as a level cap raise (which we had to pay for by the way).

1 Like
#18

Agreed. I wouldn’t consider it a DLC for exactly those reasons. But it is an improvement to BL3 that was available at launch unlike its BL2 equivalents that were DLCs. That was my point.

1 Like
#19

I agree with all of this.

2 Likes
#20

Lulz.

1 Like