Sniping Incursion Sentry from base camp [UPDATED][ULTRA UPDATED]

5/23 THE END OF CHEESE: An update came out today ending this first, and very hopefully last wave of cheesy/exploitative/cheating way of play. More details here: https://gearboxsoftware.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210007213-PC-Update-Hot-fix-Information

UPDATE FROM GEARBOX BLOG: “Speaking of the latter, bigger content patches require a little more time and need to go through first-party certification. So, for example, we’ve heard you loud and clear about Marquis standing in the back of the map and picking away at a Sentry’s shields, and we are addressing it in the first content patch for Battleborn, which will be coming soon.”

This needs to be fixed immediately, please. A marquis sniped our first sentry into the ground from the balcony at the front of their base on Overgrowth :[

It sucks to have to put this out there because I’m sure others will do the same -_-, but that is obviously not how the mode is meant to be played. GB I hope you can fix this ASAP as I prefer incursion, and I’m sure others do as well, but if it’s persistent…can’t play that mode :\

EDIT: Quite interesting that this turned into a discussion, and awesome that it seems to be a pretty friendly one! However there seem to be arguments that this technique can be countered with particular heroes, but that would mean that the team you are on would have to choose those heroes constantly as there is no guarantee if the opposing team will or will not have a marquis. This seems to fundamentally undermine the idea of choosing varying teams, random assortments of characters, and having fun with those characters and seeing how they clash. If this was ranked and you knew what characters the other team was picking, sure maybe there’s an argument there…

It’s not a counter, it’s an exploit. If the enemy team is in your base, pushing minions forward, and Marquis could still be in back causing damage to your sentry. The purpose of the match is tug of war, to bring minions forward as a buffer to assault the sentry, and simply sniping the sentry is not that.

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I think that happened in my game too. Knew it was something. I heard the shots but couldnt see anyone.

its a legit tactics there also legit ways of countering it like having toby or isic stand on your sniper nest to block or redirect the shots back at the sniper. Its one of the tactics i advertise in my guide’s lols

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There are sooooooooooooo many people complaining about things today that just need to be countered. That’s how PvP works. Especially when you KNOW it’s happening. Geeesh…

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I think the problem is, you have to take more control of the map than your enemy to stop it. And to be honest, the Sentry’s walking around is a good cause for grief, sometimes hes safe and sometimes he walks into LoF.

Countering it is out of the question unless you have a Marquis of your own. You cannot divert manpower into dealing with it without being at a disadvantage in all other regards of the match (Thrall control, minion control, shard clusters etc), and you can forget attempting to deal with him at all if you do not have a Marquis of your own, or at the very least Thorn.

The bottom line is that Marquis is relatively safe from retribution on the balcony steps and can keep doing constant damage to the sentry from that position without anyone, short of another Marquis, being able to do much about it. It’s not a legit tactic, it’s an oversight.

Possible solutions would be to make the sentry ignore shield damage that is inflicted in the absence of minions or thralls also attacking it, but that would most likely ruin legit assaults on the sentry as well. A more viable option would be raising the balconies a bit, blocking line of sight to the sentry.

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I agree that this is a legit tactic (snipers are effective when used right) but I still think Gearbox will patch it…honestly, it’ll be a sigh of relief I bet. In the meantime - counter it.

YOU CAN COUNTER IT EASY with Toby and Isic they have abilitys that can come inbetween the bullets and the sentry stop blaming the character when there are ways to counter that crap you mite as well complain about thorn and whisky foxrot because they can cheese its just as good also

Well if one of their players is just shooting a sentry then they’re basically down a man. Only done one mission there today and they did indeed have a marquis trying to snipe our sentry, got it to 99. It is annoying since it’ll mean lots of snipers on that map. But we pushed around the corner to knock him off and kill him.
@havicstone those barriers die in seconds, not a solution. Toby would be better off just shooting him. Definitely need range to deal with it.

dod you think i just mean put up barrior and leave t tobys rails gun and hit things just as far across the maps and pierce though solid object he can easily force the sniper off and if it gets back up repeat.

I am very surprised Gearbox hasn’t done anything to change this. Starting to think that they believe Sentry Sniping is fair game because they haven’t adjusted anything since the Open Beta. Or maybe they are just looking for a better solution, I can’t say for sure.

Iv’e had luck scaring them away with melee characters that can get up on the ledge such as El Dragon and Phoebe. Boulder can easily block his way behind him and Boldur dash him off into your team if your having problems with him. Most of them are too busy trying to snipe and don’t look at the mini map.

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You’ve been Bolduring? :slight_smile: its torment! Its scary to solo queue because pubs, but partying up makes me feel awful :frowning: i changed my ign to Doctor Professor Boldur for the time being.

The team is not “down a man” when that one person is dealing with the main objective with almost no ability whatsoever to stop him. No character is as good at long-range damage as Marquis, and it shows when he’s the only one who can counter himself with this strategy. Someone like Thorn or ISIC simply won’t have the damage to deal with him, especially if his positioning on the stairs is good, which to any semi-competent person will be, where they only show as much of themselves as necessary to hit the sentry. The other problem is that he is not limited to this strategy either. If someone like ISIC tries to counter it by shooting at him, Marquis will simply make use of his superior damage and deal with him, either killing him outright or forcing him back to base to heal, and then going back to the original plan of cheesing the sentry. The strategy is simply broken and has been since beta, and could easily be fixed by lowering the wall so that you can’t shoot the sentry under it. It’s not as simple as pushing around the corner to deal with him on the stairs because any team of four with even a decent composition can stop you, e.g. Miko + any kind of tank like ISIC or Montana.

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I wouldn’t call it legit tactics when it can be heavily exploited. I don’t think incursion should become who can cheese the sentry best. The games design and mechanic was not meant for that as it is explained every time you play the map. It becomes much worse and meta toxic inducing when there are several versatile teamcomps, yet one type excels are completely ignoring the games basic function so it becomes superior to others. Similar to league for example when globals existed it defeated much of the strategic point of positioning, pushing, sieging, jungling and heavily emphasised backdooring until all pro teams were either backdooring meta or counter backdooring meta. That does not built for an entertaining or very strategic and verstatile game and risks hindering alot of players for a stale snipe/ counter snipe or lose demand.
I’ve seen it done many times, i’ve even tried it myself and with someone like miko, toby, marquis, gali or orendi there is vertually no pushing against them while they chip chip chip your sentry even if they take it down by one percent and play def til the time runs out if you cannot cheese them back you loose because of a broken tactic especially sense the sentry normally defends itself from backdoor as a clear implication to enforce the intended incursion goal but cannot against an unforseen exploit.

( furthermore a marquis can play extremely counter by being barely visible on the steps making him almost impossible to fire back at, it becomes a game that puts all the pressure on your sniper ,if you have one, or forced pushes , in which the game minions and structures are currently very weak,Marquis also can lockdown the minion chockpoint against focused pushes with damaged timeslow and owl patrol and ulti.)

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No one uses isic to just shot his wards can reflect incoming dmg for 14 seconds his legendary gear takes 6 seconds off the cd if his aegis is broken he can just reflect the sniper to death IF IT DOSENT CATCH ON because there only a few spots were you can cheese the sentry from your base and there both easy to hit with AoEs no marquis in his right mind would just stand on AoEs

@dwarfurious Well he is my second favorite next to El Dragon and ever since watching you wreck with him it motivated me to try and obtain your level of Boldur play :grin:. Back on topic, there are many ways of dealing with this even if the enemy team has a Miko/tank combo since most Mikos just focus on healing the tank it’s very easy to focus him.

You need a good engagement character such as El Dragon, Isic, Montana, Boulder, the list goes on… that can start the team fight in your favor then focus the Miko down. Unless he is smart and paying attention to the mini map Marquis will typically just keep focusing your sentry meaning you have a 3v5 advantage over the enemy after the healer is dead. I’m not saying you will obtain this result every game but even with randoms if you engage the enemy team they will most likely follow up.

I’ve had tons of luck just bullying the Marquis sniping even if i didn’t have a team backing me up. Stealth characters like Oscar Mike and Shayne and Aurox also have an easy time sneaking up on him from behind and pushing him off.

@kittymeowwhisker
ISIC in fact has a very easy time dealing with Marquis either by stunning him with his dash/plasma ward combo or simply out sniping him with his beefy wards to reflect and protect him. ISIC is a very hard matchup since he not only is much more beefy but can also pump out a lot of damage with just his charge shots.

Give people time to adjust and learn the game. I have never had an issue with the exploit because i put a stop to it every time and taught the Marquis not to snipe my sentry while I’m trying to have a fair match. Sometimes you need a good team to back you up and sometimes you just gotta be the game changer yourself.

Ha, this is really interesting. This is the first time that I’ve followed a game from the pre release to the beta to the release.

This was actually one of the major complaints in the beta. I very curious to see if they would take that feedback into consideration and add some kind of blocking environment.

I guess not.

Again, the Marquis is extremely versatile insofar as he doesn’t have to stick with shooting the sentry, it’s just something he can do if the opportunity arises, which will be there almost all game. The Marquis can simply snipe other people if ISIC wants to camp the top with his shield, but even that won’t be enough as any Marquis will be able to damage him enough when the shield is down. Either way he’ll always be useful either with the role he’s obviously intended to do, or with an obvious exploit.

@Dr_H0H0

Most characters in the game can deal with Marquis if they get up close to use stuns and other abilities, but that’s hardly the point. It’s immensely difficult to even get up to a position where you can deal with a Marquis standing on the stairs with such abilities, especially if right at the start of the game he goes up to them and snipes the sentry. Let’s be real though, ISIC can’t outsnipe Marquis, as good as he is, and if he is doing that there is obviously a major disparity in skill between the two players.

@havicstone
Read what I’ve said. Marquis simply does not need to shoot at him if he has the shield up, and loses nothing for it. He can either continue sniping the sentry because it’s large in size, or he can shoot someone else.