So ... 2 Wilhelms come into my game

… There was nothing to do! Did a level 60 reset of my UVHM game, story mode, open to public. Lots of joiners. Normal play until I got a game with two Wilhelms. Nothing to do! Nothing to kill! I was Athena and didn’t even need to throw my Aspis for a revive even once. This is a naysay those who say Wilhelm is weak. He’s good.


The Wolfs will blot out the sun!


If you spec into the hunter killer tree and play solo, there won’t be much of anything for you to do either, except hitting the action skill. His drones are so good I find him boring to play, and it seems he made your game boring too.

Weak? No. Good? Depends on what you like.

Wolf and St. and the hunter killer tree definitely make a difference. However I don’t think it’s that great of a difference gamewide if you try to get involved in gameplay at all.

Sure if all you did was launch Wolf and Saint and sit back and and relaunch Wolf and Saint you would be successful but wow how Boring is that.

If you spec into rolling thunder and have 20 stacks I would be able to see your point, otherwise I have to disagree.

I see this around a lot when people talk about Wilhelm, and I will never understand the mentality that wolf “carries the load”. He really doesn’t. If you don’t spec into him at all, he does enough damage to stay alive, strip shields, and draw aggro. If you spec into HK without rolling thunder, Wolf can kill some enemies on his own, but he will mainly be there to assist you in tag team kills. Even when specced into rolling thunder, he still doesn’t obliterate everything on his own until he’s out for at least 100 seconds (20 stacks).

His drones can kill enemies and stay alive on their own, but that doesn’t mean they carry you.

Wilhelm was my first and most used 'toon so I certainly know how he works. I spec into a lot of W&S buffs but never expect Wolf to kill much or very fast. I count more, actually, on the Saint buffs to keep me alive & Wolf to serve as a distraction. That frees one up to really lay it on (guns-wise).

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You are right, I exaggerated when I said there won’t be anything for you to do. But for me, since I can’t place Wolf like I would a turret (for strategic advantage with relation to the area I am in), he just seems like a fling and forget thing that takes half my kills (sometimes a split second before I expend ammo on an enemy) and prevents me from using him strategically. Unless of course I spec into Laser Guided, which is better than nothing but still doesn’t work for me because unless I spend ALL the time he is out guiding him, he will still find a way to mess up what I am doing (because I couldn’t place him strategically in a certain spot to handle those enemies over there while I handle these over here).

Agreed that Wolf doesn’t “carry the load” unless you purposely play him to - but that is a bit of the point, his superior mobility begs to carry the load and you have to either play to let him or play in a way that prevents it…for me, that is not how an AS should work. Heck, it isn’t even how a good co-op partner should work, there should be coordinated attacks, not carpet bombing mayhem - unless of course, that is your favored playstyle. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

And in the case of the OP, whether it was the Wolves getting ALL the kills or the Wolves AND the Wilhelms, it doesn’t matter, they were so good at getting to everything on the map before the OP, they made his co-op game boring.

Perhaps he should have gone to the hardest content available then. :slight_smile: Hardest available to him at that moment was probably holodome though as he said he reset UVHM.

This reminds me of Mordecai’s bloodwing “■■■■■■” all the enemies on the field before my turret even fully deploys.

I have started a Wilhelm recently. I’m glad to hear he’s not weak.

wilhelm isnt weak. its just with nishas ludicrous tombstone damage, claptraps ludicrous explosive damage and athena’s ludicrous elemental damage make his devastating damage look weak by comparison.

And Jack’s ridiculous Explosive Damage as well…then add on the Baroness and here ridiculous Cryo Damage

And Wilhelm IS relatively weak in comparison…

But he has all that defense and comes across…at least to me…as probably the game’s most balanced character.

And he can be just damned hard to kill specced and played right…


Jack can be UnKillable specced right.

It’s sad that the character who can swap his body parts on the fly to become a cyborg is so…
Lack luster isn’t the right word. I mean I love him but he’s just not as Outrageous as the other characters. He’s plain and Simple. And Very Easy I’d say too.

I agree that Wilhelm is likely the most balanced character. I feel like all the TPS toons hold their ground much more evenly than in previous titles. I really enjoyed my PTs with Wilhelm for the simple fact that because of Saint i never felt like i was downed repeatedly no matter the situation and because of Vengeance Cannon, even when i did go down I seldom had to respawn. To some, that may sound boring, but to me that made the PTs much more enjoyable.

not gonna lie… thought there was gonna be a funny joke in here :unamused:

I remember one of Gearbox’s little tips that popup at the bottom of the screen that said something about Wilhelm being the best mercenary on Pandora.

Would Gearbox lie?

not gonna lie… thought there was gonna be a funny joke in here

OK two wilhelms walk into torgue’s bar…

Nitpicking here, but it said best mercenary in the inner worlds. I think pandora is in the backwoods of the galaxy.

Eh, maybe you’ve spent more time playing with Wilhelms than I have. I’ve never stood in awe at just how powerful one was in my game.

Even when I play as him, I think Wolf is kind of a joke damage wise. I end up getting more of the kills than him, he’s just my little distraction.

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Which, like Axton & Roland’s turrets, is the point of Wolf & Saint - Aggro enemies and take a chunk out of their shield, while healing.

I really enjoy how balanced he is - I’ve never had a problem with it, even in hairy situations and still early in TVHM, I’ve never come across a situation except for trying Iwa drastically under-leveled, that I felt like I had hit a wall and needed to grind to get through.

As a mercenary, a lot of strategy comes into play to overcome steep odds.
To me, that’s one of the best points of of his playstyle - look at a situation and find a clever way to get through it.

Then again, I’m not much for running raid-bosses, Mobbing is where it’s at for me.



Holds hands apart This many.