So everyone is just cool with them announcing another skill tree you have to pay for right?

Game devs could charge $500 for a game and still greed would win out and they would screw you over with micros, dlc and cut content to be released later, all while releasing a broken game that takes forever to fix let’s just be honest.
This isn’t just a Gearbox problem, this is a gaming/tech culture problem. Everyone is super willing to defend absolutely everything these companies do and are more than willing to suffer through broken, incomplete games they paid their hard earned money for. Forgive me if my standards haven’t been lowered for what I expect from a game company. I’ve more than supported games like Path of Exile and Warframe (which are free to play btw and absolute DEMOLISH BL3 in terms of polish and content available all while being INSANELY customer friendly) so it’s not supporting a dev that is the issue. It is the worthiness that gives me cause for concern and honestly I (from my subjective opinion) don’t feel BL3 has earned it :confused:


Rental is absolutely fair. Can you resell it? If I own something I can resell it. If I can’t legally resell it then I don’t own it. If I’m paying to use it but I don’t actually own it that’s a lease or rental. PERIOD.

Or, to put it more plainly, straight from 2K’s EULA:

By purchasing this software you have obtained a license that is :

  1.  Not exclusive
  2.  Limited
  3.  Personal
  4.  Not for commercial use
  5.  Cannot be sub-licensed
  6.  Open for termination if you attempt to circumvent the protection measures taken by the company for the software.

So yeah, your game can still be taken away from you. You don’t own it, you can’t give it away, trade it, or resell it, and you can’t alter it in an unapproved way or it can be taken from you.

That’s a rental.


Worse than that.

They can change the game (via patch) during its first year, rendering it unplayable and un-refundable.

That’s called Fraud / Bait & Switch. Choose your vernacular.

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Well you can sell the account you link your code to.
And you can sell a disc copy.
I mean you CAN get rid of it, it just might not be that optimal.

No, he just explained using the 2k’s own EULA, it is illegal to resell it, selling the account would be classified as reselling the license. That’s why lots of games just ban sold accounts.

I mean there’s no way to tell. That’s why League of Legends players who get their accounts banned buy em by the bulk on ebay.
They aren’t gonna ban your account if your IP address changes. Now I don’t know how that works between different countries but within the same one I don’t see any scenario where you can’t sell an account. Heck, I bought BL3 for my friend on Epic games by making a new account with his email and giving him that epic account.

Not only that but even if you do buy it, imagine what would happen if GBX just said “you can’t play this game anymore, until you give us another $60”
The fallout would decimate their player base. So until I’m like, 50 years old and GBX tells me my rental is up? I’m pretty sure I own the license to use the software.
But so far every digital game I’ve had, and there’s a lot, none have been taken away from me.

They should gift it to the players who had to put up with all their failures. Seems fair.

I mean I can name games with bigger and smaller budgets that thanked their fan base with complete overhauled content and didn’t charge a dime.

(hello games went full incognito for one full year. After, a massive update and later threw in more content and even VR because they wanted to make things right. GBX just asks for more $$$ on a game that isn’t even finished after charging full price(or over))


No Man’s Sky and Monster Hunter World are great examples of dev’s giving absolutely loads of free content to their fanbase. In the case Hello Games, they worked their nuts off for free because they knew the players weren’t at all happy, utmost respect to them and it is a great game now, some other dev’s could learn a lot from them cough GBX cough


Honestly, they can’t balance the three skill trees right and there are still skills that don’t seem to actually function at all. Vampyr on Moze for me still doesn’t proc in times where it obviously should for one. They already have balance issues and and other such issues that need to be fixxed or get broken often enough during other fixes that adding a fourth skill tree to each vault hunter will just cause more unnecessary frustration and take away from some of the core issues that still need to be fixed.

My advice to Gearbox would be to actually listen to the community. Stop giving us stuff you think we want and give us stuff we actually want. Stop over-nerfing weapons into the ground to the point they are completely unusable, fix skills so they actually work when they are supposed to or how they are supposed to, let us choose what mayhem modifiers we want if we want any at all. Make the trials and other such things more rewarding loot wise than just farming Traunt. We’ve had no seasonal event for quite some time so the tab showing it is just “inactive.” Instead of leaving it inactive just have it cycle between previous seasonal events such as the halloween one so the out leveled items from those events can be obtained at the new level caps.


No clue why the seasonal events aren’t in weekly rotation now that they’ve all been done. It would be such a breath of fresh air to log in every week and have a limited event for that week to break the monotony instead of having to wait months and months for them to decide to give us content they’ve already made again and gear people want. We’re going to have to wait almost another year for a chance to get our OPQ’s and yellowcakes again at the max level. No wonder people get gear through other means on this game. They do such an awful job at giving you normal avenues to acquire the freaking gear you can’t blame them…

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i think the skilltree s will be the fix for vaulthunters and they wont fix the existing trees
and thats gonna be fking ass
i rly think they will before even thnking of fixing COMs and skills just release new skilltrees you have to pay for so the VHs like zane can build more then the already paywalled seeing dead.

i definietly wanted more things to be fixed before going further

i wont pay
i wont do ■■■■ until the game is fixed
and the stuff they delivered is working
the newest dlc is a copy paste and if you slide into the teleports it might freeze… it did for me once already



No I am not okay with it.

95% of the day one issues are still in the game. Bugs, glitches, blue screens, MS Easy Brick Ovens…

And yet… tons of nerfs.

But new shiny better than most recent now nerfed shiny, because $tuff.

Four new trees, huh?

Unless they are so badly wrought that they’ll each need a Seein’ Dead to make them viable, I cannot believe that they took less work that it would have taken to create a new character with the standard 3 trees.

I just don’t buy it.

And so I WON’T buy it.


the DLC’s are so cheap and so much fun, so far I have no problem with paying for another tree.

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Honestly no idea, it has been forever since we were able to get the ghost call and that was such a fun grenade to use.

Another thing they need to do is fix the vehicles, at the current level cap on true vault hunter mode some of the driving section parts of the story are incredibly tedious to do because some enemy on foot will shoot you with some mayhem 10 damage weapon out of the blue and just destroy the vehicle and down you immediately.


I wish people weren’t throwing money away for things that are merely ‘good enough’. You can get your money’s worth tenfold with other games, why shouldn’t borderlands franchise be the same? It’s one of the best looter shooter franchises in video game history. When we started to be so easily satisfied?

It’s not even the game not being perfect. In fact, the game is in fact not good enough. There are a tons of improvement that can be done, some of them really simple.


Normies have brought the standards for video games down so insanely far that it’s not worth snot most times now. All you have to be these days to be qualified as decent is not be COMPLETELY broken, or be made by a big dev company with ravenous idiots willing to defend anything because tribalism…
Then you have all the people who have decided to make a career out of certain games and the moment you start having finances wrapped up in a game you are no longer an unbias source for opinions. $90 to the average gamer isn’t the same as $90 to the average streamer/youtuber who just writes it off on their taxes and makes whatever they make from videos/streams.


I think it’s how these companies get the pay to play idea in your head and your fine wih it, then add more and more over time, not a good thing to do on a game that’s had tons and still has tons of issues to this day, just my opinion…


I can’t wait for the new skill trees, though I’m really hoping they do it right, if not, they should be ready to start fixing it.
While the new FL4K skill tree sounds nice for survivability and crowd control and the new pet stuff, it doesn’t sound like it’s providing much in terms of damage though for sure they didn’t show every skill, maybe 50% of them.
But I’m happy for Amara’s Cryo skill tree.

DLC pricing for new content is one thing; putting actual skill trees for existing vanilla characters behind a paywall is almost impressive in its shamelessness.

Obviously I’d be more upset if I thought the game - one year after release - was good enough to even have installed any more, but my respect for those in charge at GBX just took a massive hit.


They certainly are ‘cheap’. In every conceivable way.

DL4 appears to be the ‘cheapest’ of them all.