So everyone is just cool with them announcing another skill tree you have to pay for right?

The game I was sold promised features X,Y, Z. They delivered all of those features. If they add feature A and B and charge me, so be it. Those features take the efforts of people who need to get paid.

The fact that they are adding features A and B rather than fixing some existing issues make adding A and B irrelevant to me.

What would annoy me is if they add new skill trees and it gates content between those whom have and don’t have the trees or if those with a 4th tree and those without cant play together. This game is already hard enough to play MP anything that divides the players base would be catastrophic.


that’s why i never play coop :rofl:

and that’s why i’ll never finish the second takedown

That would definitely be a concern. I would expect it would be the same as the way DLC items work - they’re included in the game code so that those with the DLC can still use them while playing co-op with someone who doesn’t.

That does raise the follow-up question of is there going to be a level cap raise at the same time? I could see a potential risk that the fourth tree combined with more skill points might mean a player having that can tackle content more easily than one without, and that might degrade the co-op experience.

I guess we’ll only know when the stuff actually gets released.

if they increase the level cap again i’m definitely out…

they should focus on fixing the game and difficulty now…

adding a new skilltree will just break more stuff again so fixing stuff before that happens would be a big help


Have you forgotten the awesomeness that is individually scaled co-op?
I really don’t expect that to be an issue.

You are not alone in the very least. I know I dived in head first to pre-order and purchase the Super Deluxe Sucker Beta Edition because of all the fun I had with the first three entries.

Just one big learning lesson when it comes to anything from Gearbox or 2k at this point.


If I had the choice I would’ve scrapped the new skill trees and added in a DLC character or two. I would’ve paid quite a bit of money for that. But I guess we have to trust Gearbox’s “statistics” that say almost no one plays as DLC characters in the Borderlands franchise.

Greedy, yikes. Wonder how many companies you ran or have. I mean you have a point, but you shroud it by these trash statements that just kill a good point.

Point made, but you chose to lock yourself in that room and deal with that long year of frustration on BL3. I’m not saying there aren’t issues, but you could have easily said its not worth the time or money and dipped out. You can blame a lot of things, but in the end, the frustration is on you.

TL/DR: At some point we have to realize games of new are not game of old and might not even compared to what we have seen 10 - 15 years ago. If we keep on doing that it’s just going to end up in disappointment every time.

Theres more moving parts to these games and models. It’s more than just “do this” or “do that”.

Its strange times for older gamers to see the shift in the industry. Things are changing and the generations that game now are much different in taste compared to the old. That is one thing that games has to adapt to and well that is not going to sit well with some.

This is just something we are going to have to realize.

I am not saying BL3 has no issues, it does of course, but I think the models we are seeing today with getting a game out, and hot fixing and changing on the go is just the sad new normal. I can deal with the games issues (as long as they fix them), and even fixing game play or content. The real issue I have with BL3 is the main story. Just didn’t give the feels as others have. But the DLC’s have really helped with that, while not perfect, I still cant keep on comparing times of old to these newer games, its almost guaranteed disappointment.

BL2 is not BL3 and vise versa. They all have/had their issues. Just focusing on the game at hand, BL3, should be the constructive way to hopefully see the game get better. Personally I think it has, but yes there are some items that are disappointing but overall I still play the game and as long as I see the benefit, I will continue to support them.

I assume that others will do the same.

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Sucker Punch delivered Ghost of Tsushima pretty damn solid on release.

To get in the mind set that we will just be disappointed on release day throws shade at the developers that do it right. I will not make the same mistake again with Gearbox that is for sure.


Exactly this. I have played loads of games on release the last year or so, and they have all worked and played nearly perfect, GoT being one of them. This game however was a laggy crashfest from the beginning, just using the menu’s was a battle of wits, no other game comes close to how badly this one performed. And it still is crashing and laggy a year later I might add, 3 blue screens in dlc4 alone on my ps4 just through opening my menu, I worry about the damage this game is doing to my poor little console.


I quoted the part most relevant to me. I LOVE Borderlands. I stepped away for 6 months or so because this is what I wanted.

If they want to add more, that is fine, but do it in big chunks when people are tired of the game, please don’t try to string me along with a 3 level cap raise or “events”. Events are for when the game gets stale, not to give you oodles of gear that will be summarily underpowered upon the event end.


The thing is that I get why people want it for free and that some even expected DLC 5 to be free. The logical fallacy here is that many seem to compare BL3 with games that package free DLC with microtransactions, which BL3 just does not have. If the game had microtransactions I’d be out for sure, but because I know that they don’t earn a penny more than what we buy in the form of the game or DLC (and merch) I am willing to pay for additional content.

But there’s more to it: Yes, we don’t know how work-intensive the new skill trees will be and realistically speaking they probably won’t be as elaborate as the original ones due to already existing skills and mechanics, but it’s still a ton of work that has to go into such a DLC. The game mode can be a massive thing or not, nobody knows at this point. But if the pricing is fair for the content provided, then I’m willing to pay.

But wait, there’s more: No matter the price this DLC will be best for players that play multiple vault hunters, so hardcore players will absolutely get more out of the skill trees and probably the new mode, too. So, if you only play 1 vault hunter and think you had your fill, so be it. It’s fine to not buy a product if it’s prospects don’t interest you.

In terms of being a good or bad business practice this is pretty standard honestly. It’s really nothing new to sell game modes or character skills as expansions.

What I will keep a close eye on will be the Next-Gen upgrade, because BL3 is pretty heavy on the CPU, which is part of the reason why the consoles are as abysmal of an experience as they are. But if BL3 still doesn’t run stable on the next gen that would be a massive point towards my theory that the consoles just got a really poor port from the PC version of the game. The Series X will be the most interesting as the current XBox has far worse problems than the PS4, from what I heard and experienced at least.


Other than looking at the IP address and attached email address? Or am I supposed to give up my email account that I’ve had for 20 years as well?

And yes, IP addresses are global, not just national. I can tell what country, region, and city you are in as well as which ISP you are using based on your IP.

You can believe whatever you like of course. Just don’t replace your .exe file with one that removes the DRM or you’ll be stuck with an eye patch and no license.

I don’t want it for free or expect it for free. What I want and expect is for the game I already paid for and already have, along with the DLC I already paid for and already have is fixed and working properly before they ask me for more more money for new modes or skill trees.

It’s like selling you a car with a V8 engine and only 5 cylinders are working after a year, but they will happily sell you the parts to make the other three work along with a new engine tune as an extra add on package.



Don’t worry about it. Explaining it in detail would get me banned here. Just do you and stay blissful.


I have no issue with it. Why should I?
They gave us all and more that was included in the season pass.
Now they make another season pass or something alike, so people can buy it or not.
Krieg, Gaige, Digistruct - no one had to buy it either, plenty of people were playing the vanilla game and still had fun. That’s just how things go.

Also I’m not sure, do we know for certain that the skill tree will be in a payable dlc? Not a native speaker, but doesn’t dlc mean downloadable content only? Could also be free downloadable content, like the takedowns or events were?


Charging for DLC is fine with me via Story, Characters etc. But man, Skill Trees and Action Skills on character I already paid for is very stupid and anti consumer. Like Come on Gearbox. Make them free.