So multiplayer matchmaking disparity. What a surprise

So I ranted repeatedly in beta about the problems with matchmaking. its dispiriting when a couple of pre lvl 10s (for example) are matched up w a q’d 5 man team or a group of lvl 20ish players. And I was shouted down, called a noob and a whiner et al, Despite repeated assurances the issue was being addressed, not surprisingly, the matchmaking remains broken and horrible and utterly idiotic at the commercial release. I have an idea. How about do matchmaking based on level. Or let the players pick a character first and incorporate the level of that toon into the matchmaking so if a player wants to try out a new character, they’re not respected ly destroyed by a lvl 25 player team who are obviously on team speak and just coordinating destruction.

If you want to give those elite players better rewards or lvls, I don’t have a problem with that. It’s not that there has to be equal rewards for those players who excel. Good on them, But for casual players who maybe can log a few hours per week, it would be nice to be able to Q for a match that matches similar players of similar skill and/or time. Because quite frankly, I’d like to have fun playing this game but when almost every pvp match ends 100-1000 or whatever, it’s kind of what’s the point.

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Let me give you an example. So I q’d for a random meltdown match. I was matched with. Lvl 3’ 5’ 8’ 9(me) and 3. No worries we are all learning. Then after 4-5 mins, may match ups are lv 21’ 23’ 21’ 25 and 23. How exactly does that work? The team learning how to play, of course, got utterly rolled by the all lvl 20s. It wasn’t close. Was that fun for the new people? Was that fun for the lvl 20s?

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in order, the answers to your questions are no and yes. no to the first, for obvious reasons. and yes to the second, or why else would they do it? i am right with you on this one and have gotten into severe arguments with people since the test last year. how it was not literally priority number two, immediately following stability of the game itself is beyond me. i cannot wrap my head around it to save my life.

so why are people forming premades? i have several theories, but only one really stands up to tests in most cases. there are some friends that knew each other before this game came out, possibly even in real life, and they group up. as much as i hate playing against premades, i am almost ok with that because they are friends. but i am fairly certain that makes up about 5 pct of the premade teams. and those guys typically are just there to have fun and enjoy each others company. they screw around on troll characters and just get a feel for the game, laugh and have fun.

then there is the overwhelming majority of premade teams. they team up so they have an advantage over randoms. they all know beyond a shadow of a doubt that matchmaking does not support putting them against other premades, so they are quite directly exploiting other players to gain an advantage. funny thing is, if you catch them 1v1 before the game snowballs, they can’t hold their own independently. i have yet to run into a premade team that i had to run away from a 1v1. it ALWAYS goes down that i have their power player down to one shot and 3 guys show up to clean me up. they are bad.

i was playing some meltdown today, solo as always, and i was put with a team of four.
http://screenshotscontent-t2001.xboxlive.com/000901f89b8e40bf-66362636-6b75-4e0c-b702-13414ea1eed0/Screenshot-Original.png?sv=2014-02-14&sr=c&sig=OVkOlVZmsAKsv6JYi7%2Bc57T4fT%2FYCVV5ACBKGQY12Bw%3D&st=2016-05-07T06%3A12%3A54Z&se=2016-05-07T07%3A17%3A54Z&sp=r&gda=1462605474_85b611efa90fcb95b71948fcaeb9e6c3
I am HellaAverage, the phoebe. i outperformed the entire premade i played with and they sent me party invites and game invites. i joined their party and they said to get in cause they had one open spot. i explained to them that it is broken right now, so i will not be playing in a premade unless its a pvt match and to add me because they are cool guys and good players.
a mature, experienced, skilled player will not be found in a premade team until they fix matchmaking, unless it is in a private match

What if somebody levels in campaign? Might not be fair to throw them in with people who leveled in PvP!

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I suggest approaching it without the intentions of winning. Don’t worry about winning. Just have fun playing your battleborn. Figure out good spots on the map to gank, to fight, where to run etc. Understand when to engage, who to engage etc.

When our group plays together and steam rolls, it’s not because we are premade, it’s because the people we go up against. They think as Rath they can solo the entire team and run into a fight alone.

A lot of players ignore minions, ignore objectives and just go for fights non-stop. If you find your teams are ignoring objectives, fill in that spot. I’ve done it for my team. They’ll keep the minion waves going, as I collect shards and deploy minions and thralls.
If you’re going solo, don’t worry about others on your team. Just focus on your playing.

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The currently level system doesn’t exactly equate to skill. A ‘true-skill’ like system is something I hope for.

Couldn’t agree more.

Seen people in pug’s complain about teamwork, but they’re not playing as a team themselves. Sometimes I think the only reason they’re chatting is so people can hear them whine. They try to order people around when all they’re doing is creating confusion. Call it counter-productive, but I’ve had such bad experiences with players attempting to be General fricken MacArthur in pugs that if I hear any chatter I immediately hit “mute all”.

Best option as a solo player. Fill in gaps. Hop into team-fights when you’re needed and if it’s worth it. Don’t be afraid to run. Get objectives if needed. Won many battles with less kills than the opposing team thx to focusing on objectives instead of fighting just to fight. Get lvl’s quick (super easy in capture mode I might add).

Some premades are insanely good, but there isn’t so many that you can’t get a fair match. At least on ps4.

On a side note. Why in the hell do people get on mics just to eat POTATOE CHIPS IN MY EAR?!?

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Current level skill doesn’t exactly equate to playing skill, no, but there is a correlation. I got to 34 in Open Beta, and I’m 15 now. I definitely noticed that group levels make some difference. Not as much as they did in Beta, but still a little bit.

I’m not saying I’m a great player (I’m not at all) but you just can’t get to that command rank without knowing the maps and buildables and characters somewhat, so there’s a good chance if you get a group of 20s most of the players are just more learned. What you describe above-- a group of under 10s against over 20s shouldn’t happen. While we’re at it, they should allow a group surrender for a player DC’d at the start of the match. (Only once have I won with a teammate disconnect).

As for ‘is it fun for the level 20s’ – Not for me. I expect it is fun for some people, but I hope that’s not the majority of BB players. But in my experience it’s not fun, I don’t taunt in those circumstances, and I don’t chase them down and often hope they surrender. The most fun matches are the ones that are a challenge, and they’re also the most rewarding.

Anyway I agree.

We do have the option to play privately against bots to get used to new characters, i never go into a pug with a new toon. But skill ranked matchmaking based on command rank should be implemented. Higher command rank usually means longer play time, more experience at the game.

Despite whatever level differences there may be, what really bothers me is approximately 75% of the versus matches I play are me on a totally random pug (no one grouped with friends at all) against a full or nearly full team of grouped up friends. If I don’t go into versus matches grouped up with a few people myself then the game isn’t fun. I mean, who likes getting demolished right? A pug who doesn’t say a word to each other and doesn’t care about strategy whatsoever against a full grouped up team talking to each other is going to lose every game. That’s just the way it is.

I’m not sure about matchmaking on consoles right now, but I play on PC and if I go in a versus match as a random the match making is almost always beyond absurd. I had one game in particular that was radically stupid… besides me, everyone else was under level 8 and we were all randoms (no one grouped at all) and the enemy team was completely grouped (5 friends) who were all in their mid 20s. They used a Miko who knew how to play and their damage dealers did too (they had Galilea and Ambra while my team had Oscar Mike and Caldarius)… my team didn’t get a single kill the whole game and for whatever reason they refused a surrender option. Magical I tell you… just magical.

I give it a slightly longer life span than evolve. Game will be dead within 1 month if they don’t get matching making going. All hail our overwatch overloards…

If this game dies because they couldn’t get matchmaking put in, I will not be preordering(or likely buying) another gearbox game ever. I don’t play single player games very often and if their multiplayer games fail due to lack of basic necessities then it is 100% them just cash grabbing and that makes me sad.

They should have just put the game out for free without any single player and done micro transactions. Would probably have done better than they are now. They could have done paid dlc just to get the single player for those who wanted it and left it completely separate.

i remember when the test was getting ready to come out how absurd i thought it was when people would talk about how upset and confused they were that the game wasnt going to be f2p. but now that i see what a moba is really like and have the game, i completely understand what they meant.

Yeah, I really, really, want to love this game, but the matchmaking is completely killing any fun at all. I’m not a huge MOBA wizard and I honestly don’t expect to win every match I play, but losing every match is just horrible. Sometimes I’m the best player on my team, sometimes I’m the worst, but I’ve literally lost 90% of the matches I’ve played and that’s just stupid. With a proper ranking system there is no reason I should be seeing story after story of people losing the vast majority of their matches.

Either there isn’t matchmaking at all and it just throws ten random people together or it’s one of the worst matchmaking systems I’ve ever seen in a competitive game. Regardless, it’s killing what little playerbase the game has and unless they get this figured out rather quick this game is as good as dead, and that’s a shame because I think it has the potential to be a really great game.

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So games tonight. 4 man team all 25+ w one pug who was lvl 30. For that match, my group had a lvl 2 and a lvl 5. Game 2. Pug group all 20+. My group all teens with one lvl 7. One of my group quit out after we got completely rolled. Game 3- all my group was 15+ w several 20+ and the other group was all sub level 10 w a lvl 2. They were rolled. It was not fun.

Come on guys. Fix matchmaking. There’s no reason to subject myself to loss after loss after loss, night after night. Unless there’s some balancing, logging on is pointless. And note : I didn’t enjoy destroying the sub 10 pug- I imagine they were as miserable as I am when I get rolled, which is often. So fix it. Or the backlash to the matchmaking is going to make the Diviison backlash look mild by comparison.

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Oh and better. A pre made group. 25, 42, 45, 35, 29. My group - 4 teens and a lvl 4.

The great thing for the devs- they already got my money. The bad thing for the devs- if this game isn’t more fun, what’s the point of playing.

Yea, went in for a game and got mached INSTANTLY with a premade group of 5 after getting home, couldn’t even hit leave matchmaking that’s how fast the game started. Got into the match and their galil blew me up with her force pull into desecration ability twice in about a minute while their entire premade pushed into our tank and blew it up within the first 2 minutes of the game.

I’ve never had a game where when playing it, I get so badly matchmade that I just shut off the console because I don’t even have the energy to put up a ~3 minute fight vs these guys. I am already getting to the point where I don’t want to play this game anymore… gearbox needs to get their **** together and separate 4-5 man groups from the rest of matchmaking.

I mean, I’ve had games like the division make me want to shut off the game and go play the last of us’s MP instead because it’s pvp is such a mess… but I’ve never had a game make me feel like just going to bed early because I’m so tired of playing a videogame.

If I don’t get some news soon of how they’re going to change this, the game will be deleted in a week or less. They put a lot of effort into making this game and it’s SOOO GOOOOD, but unplayable when friends are offline which will kill the mp.

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I can’t help but wonder how much of these discussions are people talking about completely different matchmaking systems. A Gearbox dev has said that the XBOne strangely provides less matchmaking system support than the XBox 360. I can’t help but wonder what percentage of these complaints are XBOne players suffering from an unavoidably lesser system. I’m not saying I think all of these issues are on the XBOne. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a lot related to PC, where the matchmaking should in theory be strongest. But it would be interesting to see people’s game platforms when they’re reporting suffering these issues.

How can you actually determine the skill of a player? IDK seems like a hard thing to do. Even if you’ll try implementing such an “ideal” system in the game, you will probably not find a match at all.

gbx did make some sort of comment about those difficulties. thing is, no other games have an issue with it. destiny, for example, prioritizes premade teams vs premade teams in even their normal playlists. it also has a 3’s and a 6’s freelance playlist where you cannot queue in a team. i have no clue why they didnt foresee this being a thing.

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While that’s a great attitude to have when it comes to pretty much all games, it often doesn’t work in practice. It is not fun as a new player to come up against players who vastly outskill you to the point where they could virtually solo your entire team. Losing 100-0 is not fun, and it’s not a good way for new players to learn. Instead, it puts them off and makes them not want to play again. Winning/losing has very little to do with it, it just simply is not fun to come up against players vastly more skilled.

[quote=“NinjaDimes, post:8, topic:1413923”]
Current level skill doesn’t exactly equate to playing skill, no, but there is a correlation.
[/quote]Not really. You can get to max level doing the campaign missions if you really wanted to. Being able to complete the campaign does not in any way mean you will be competent at PvP. Yes, a level 35 player will likely be better than a level 5, but that doesn’t take into account that the level 35 might never have played a competitive shooter (like myself).

[quote=“rafter1974, post:13, topic:1413923”]
Either there isn’t matchmaking at all and it just throws ten random people together or it’s one of the worst matchmaking systems I’ve ever seen in a competitive game. Regardless, it’s killing what little playerbase the game has and unless they get this figured out rather quick this game is as good as dead, and that’s a shame because I think it has the potential to be a really great game.
[/quote]100% this. I’ll readily admit that I am truly awful at PvP, whether it’s FPS, RTS or MMO. With that in mind, coming into matches against highly skilled players just simply isn’t fun. Yes, I can improve and have a desire to do so, but this game is about fun. I, and basically everyone I’ve ever spoken to on the subject of PvP, agrees that the most fun is had when you’re matched relatively evenly with your opponent. Unless something is done, like a rating system (you get say +5 rating for a win, -5 for a loss and 0 for surrender) that puts you at least somewhat close to similarly skilled players, the vast majority of current players will leave within the month. Not only does that harm the game (and by proxy other Gearbox games), but it further puts off new players who will then be pitted against veterans.

[quote=“everlivingtsoy, post:18, topic:1413923”]
How can you actually determine the skill of a player?
[/quote]Other competitive games seem to have no problems determining skills of players. You can take the number of wins, losses, kills, deaths, assists, builds, objectives and assign them points (positive or negative) if you wanted to. You could then use those points in a ranking system that attempts to put you with and against players of a similar score. This way, rank 1 players who are just starting out or are terrible (like myself) aren’t pitted against rank 100 players who are very obviously highly skilled.

Basically, like many others, I am becoming less and less willing to participate in PvP matches because of this. If we’re not having fun, why would we play, or for that matter why would we not directly ask for a refund (which we’re entitled to for another few weeks). Given what I’ve seen of a certain other competitive shooter due for release in the next few weeks that is vastly more casual-friendly, what is Gearbox going to do in order to keep players around? As much as I hate to admit it, I’m almost tempted to get a refund on BB and throw that money at a different company…