So now that Gearbox has made Leave No Trace useless

What are you putting the extra 3 points in now?

36% chance to add ammo…every 2 seconds…is basically useless and junk now since that basically equates to like 2-3 rounds at most by the time you’re reloading anyway. Not sure how they’re just deciding a month into the release that it was too much. Seems like an extremely basic thing that would have been adjusted well before release with any kind of character testing/development…


I think it is pretty clear from the skill trees on multiple characters that they did very little in terms of play testing.

The number of skills that don’t work as intended or simply don’t work at all is pretty much unacceptable. And that isn’t even factoring in the skills that are simply too weak to even consider for end game use.

It’s like they didn’t play test at all. There is hardly functionality to many skills let alone any sort of balance.

But then to hit the few builds that people are using and enjoying before fixing the others to make them more usable is just bad. It doesn’t leave the players feeling very good. And if this forum is any indicator, is leading to players enjoying the game a lot less. Not a good look.

Then consider that this nerf was made as a result of people being able to kill one mid game boss too quickly. Not a raid (since GBX didn’t feel the need to give us one in the base game) and its even more head scratching.


If these nerfs are a reaction to Graveward farms, its only going to get worse. He can still kill graveward crazy fast. Annointed lyuda and its game over so they would need to nerf more…

I dont see Fl4k dominating circles or anything relative to untouched builds. My amara is quicker and tankier than my Fl4k which I mained.

At this rate, I dont expect Fl4k to be good at raids when they hit, let alone the best if thats the fear.

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Well maybe by the time they’re done making Fl4k completely useless, they’ll fix my currently completely useless/broken Zane and I can go back to him.

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What is so stupid is that apparently their concern was over him melting bosses. Yet their fix didn’t even change that. He just is way worse at mobbing now.


I played Zane first. And he just felt like a poorly designed character. At least we can take solace in the fact that they can’t destroy the synergy in his skill trees since there was never any skill synergy for him to begin with

Zane was my first main. Waited until I got him to level 50 AND great gear before I passed judgement on how bad he is compared to the other vault hunters. He’s super broken.

This would seem unlikely. LnT doesn’t increase burst damage. Nerfing it doesn’t draw out Graveward any longer than the time of a reload. What’s more likely is that

  1. As they state Leave No Trace was returning more ammo than intended, which primarily only happens in mobbing. Due to several guns having secondary or unlisted projectiles that give it a chance to proc multiple times per shot, especially paired with GitM and Megavore.
  2. As they also note they made these changes to encourage build diversity. Leave no Trace probably existed on every single Fl4k build, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the single most common skill on Fl4ks.

I would suspect Gearbox saw an overperforming skill being over used, and said it was therefore “too good”.

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Broken means overpowered not underpowered.
Also should they nerf Zane as well because he can melt Graveward just as fast as FL4K used to?

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No. Broken does not mean underpowered or overpowered. It means broken. Things can be broken in more than one way.

Its usually used to mean OP 90% of the time though. Or when something isn’t working as intended. Giving unfair advantages and such.

Uh. No. Broke. Fkced. Doesn’t work. Junk. Good enough for you?

You see how fast he melts Graveward? Should he get nerfed? Because that’s the main reason FL4K was nerfed because a bunch of Youtubers posted videos of FL4K killing Graveward fast.
Anyhow if you are around gaming communities broken means what I described more than not.
It probably means what you say in the console world. Im not a console player. Whatever’s though , Shrug.

Graveward is probably the single easiest/fastest main story boss to kill for ANY vault hunter class. Using him as the reason is a piss poor cop out for the nerf.

I doubt that is the reason for the nerf. I believe they are using Shift data to determine buffs and nerfs. While each of the individual Fl4k nerfs aren’t the worst, but all of them stung together hamper capabilities a bit. This is coming from a player that uses the Rakk at all times as well.

as for where the points went, I put one more into Fast and Furryous to max that out with my sweet, sweet De4deye, and popped the last two in Hidden Machine for a little damage when the pet is running interference.

Hopefully, Fl4k will get rebalanced a bit to ease up on the nerfs, but by the same token, I am not exactly killing anything at a slower rate

Edit: The graveward farming is largely because it is an easy boss, at any mayhem, and seems to be good with world drops

I don’t want Zane to get Nerfed. I was using him as an example that a supposed underpowered character can do the same as a supposed overpowered character like FL4K.
Anyhow these nerfs don’t make any sense for FL4K.
The damage one for guerillas in the mist was good but not the duration nerf.
Leave no Trace nerf makes no sense because now NO ONE will use that skill because its useless now.
They should buff or replace the Master Tree Capstone. Because even if they buff that tree, no one will want to use the capstone. Everyone will still use The Power Inside.
They should make the capstone let you have 2 pets out at the same time with increased damage. Or some other ideas like I posted in another thread.

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I just hate the idea of something being considered to be overpowered just because it does something in a noticeable way. Instead of nerfing an early game building block of a skill tree, how about giving the other characters good skills too? Its not like BL3 lootfarming is an E-sport that needs to be perfectly balanced. Its just that all of the characters need to be fun.

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Went from nearly everyone using it, to nearly nobody using it. Diversity lvl is worse now, because we have less good options