So... Omnd-Omnd-Ohk and his Loot Pool (especially the Twister)

2 at the same time.

Yes. When I was running around with him last night, I kept killing the other 2 Savages. The Witch Doctors bring them back to life as Badass and evolve them again. So if you keep OOO alive and just keep killing the other 2 for as long as this goes on ( I had about 10mins) then maybe one of those 2 would also evolve all the way. Eventually the other 2 did stop evolving, but i’m gonna find out why - maybe time period or just number of kills or where you are. OOO ran off to the other side after a spore and was fighting the natives.

I’m intrigued to see IF this can happen. My goal for the next year :joy:

That means that you can spawn two at once. But:

Don’t kill the BAs

Here’s why:

The group you’re fighting is the second of three groups of savages that spawn before Dexi. When you kill the BAs or the witch doctors, they are replaced with members of the last group when you despawn. If you don’t get the Twister to drop on the first OOO, he’ll be replaced by a BA from the final group, and each BA you kill will deplete your supply of BAs. There are 3 BAs in the second group and 3 in the third group. If you want to continue spawning OOOs, don’t kill the BAs, there are only 6 total, and you’ll want to have a pool of 3 to maximize the chance of an OOO spawn at any given evolution. In other words, you’ve run out of chances (BAs) to spawn OOO, because you killed the chances. You ran out of BAs and had to kill Dexi, but if you hadn’t killed the BAs, you could have continued evolving them to OOO.

You can get 6 OOOs from one Dexi event. The first 4 OOO spawns have the same chance - X - because you’re spawning from a group of 3 BAs. The fifth has a 0.667X chance to spawn, because you’re spawning from a group of 2 BAs. And the sixth has a 0.333X chance because you’re spawning from a single BA. If you don’t kill the BAs, you can have a group of 3 BAs four times - 4 groups of 3 BAs. So, you have the X (highest chance) chance to spawn OOO four times.

Don’t kill the BAs

[quote=“DaRTH_FuRioN, post:37, topic:1547642”]
So if you keep OOO alive and just keep killing the other 2 for as long as this goes on
[/quote] Don’t kill the other BAs - I can’t emphasize this enough. If you plan on only spawning OOO once, then you can kill the others after he spawns, but if you plan on spawning OOO until you get the twister, or plan to spawn two OOOs at once, then do not kill the BAs.

You’ve proved that it can happen. You observed that the remaining BAs despawn and evolve after OOO spawns, and that OOO doesn’t despawn.

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Welcome to my world. lol my chubby little fingers on this phone… :tired_face: aka: Fubby’s

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I was just playing with him again, but couldn’t get the second. Chances are too low for me to really continue this quest. Took 3hrs this time just to get him. And no Twister again.

@tim_mertes Anyhoo, that’s now the triple double complete. 3 x OOO No Twister or Seraph, then 3 x Dexi’s no Seraph or anything. Super 0 loot hoard.Not really much fun is it, especially if you don’t have the stupid time to invest in this game. I feel sorry for all the people down the years that just didn’t see how this game could be. Fine for people like me who spent thousands of hours getting everything, but the average gamer loses out.

…back to Verm. Dex sucks.

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I’m sorry about your luck with that, Darth. but here’s a tip about drop rates - they’re not random. A lot of people think that they are, but they aren’t.

The first couple years after the Torgue DLC was released, GBX futzed with Pete’s drops at different times. At one point, his drop rate was so high, that you would get a legendary every other run, it seemed. At another point, his drop rate was observed to be 1.5 -in-10. One of the people who tested it posted that in 800 runs, Pete dropped exactly 15 legendaries in the first set of 100 runs, and exactly 15 in each successive set of 100 runs. That’s a very even distribution. The drop rate was set over a range of 100 drops.

And you’ll observe that even within that range, the drops are relatively evenly distributed - you won’t have to kill a boss 50 times to get the first drop. You might have to kill a boss a few more than 10 times, but not many more. And the more runs it takes to get the first drop, the fewer runs it will take to get the second, if you don’t save and quit, because the distribution over a range of drops is relatively even.

What that means is: now, with the 1-10 drop rates, in 100 hundred runs, you will most likely get 10 legendary drops from X mini-boss, or less likely 9 or 11.You won’t have to kill a boss to get the first drop after 50 runs and then get 5 in a row during runs 51-56. - you’ll get them around once every 10 runs, you’ll get about 10 in 100 runs, and you won’t get those 10 during runs 91-100. Even within the 100 drop range, the drops are relatively evenly distributed.

With the OOO spawns: if you’ve tried spawning him for a long time, kill him, and get nothing, then you need to try to spawn him again before save/quiting. It very often happens that the second OOO spawn doesn’t take nearly as long as the first. That’s not always the case, but very often the second spawn takes much less time than the first. And the second kill, often, not always, but often, will result in a Twister drop.

The Twister does have a high drop rate - if you don’t get it the first time, try again in the same session. You will double your chances regardless of drop rate or distribution.

That wasnt my impression of how RNG worked. I know it’s not ‘random’ random but as I understood it the pseudo-randomness doesn’t take into account previous rolls. With a 1/10 probability, you will with a big enough sample size see roughly that ratio emerge in drops (not sure 100 is big enough), but that doesn’t mean the next farm will be any more likely to be a win just because you’ve had 9 fails. At least that’s how I understood the situation… with each random chance generated from a seed value set by your computer’s clock (hence effectively random, as each seed value is guaranteed to be different).

Summarising here (probably badly) from @Vaulthunter101’s guide to RNG.

Forgive me if I’ve got that all wrong. Sadly I don’t deal with many numbers these days :expressionless:

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Well, I guess I won’t get a Twister anytime soon. Shock Fibber, Hail and CC then. Maybe I will find some time to farm for it next week.

Chiming in for two reasons:

1, we could get a thread going to record data on OOO spawns and drops, to plot rough odds. As a community, 100 kills would be an easy sample size to chart.

2, in my 4 OOO kills, I got Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Twister, nothing

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That’s the gambler’s fallacy, and not my proposition.

It’s not the drop rate that needs to be observed, it’s the range and distribution. A player can’t predict the whether or not the next boss kill will generate a legendary drop, nor make predictions about drops during specific runs. But you can make predictions that within some range you will have a specific number of legendary drops within a reasonable margin of error, and you can observe distribution. And that’s because the distribution is designed to be relatively even over a range - that is not random.

I remember heycarnut and his epic post. It was possibly the best post, or one of the best in any gaming forum I’ve ever read. And I agreed with some of his premises, but not all of his conclusions. As just one example,

To repeat, transforming / weighting does not mean “not random” or even “less random”, it means a bias / distribution / weighting has shaped the distribution of outcomes. You still most certainly cannot predict them from simple observation.

Yes, yes, it does. It may be that a specific outcome of one event can not be predicted, but that does not mean that the system of events is unpredictable. (which he says himself later in the post).

But that doesn’t matter here. His argument, or one of them, is that weighting and distribution don’t affect the randomness of RNG, and that’s true - the dice roll is the dice roll - random. The dice roll is random, but the drops over a range are not.

Games use weighting, selection by ranges, selection directly by value etc.:

His thesis is that a single event cannot be predicted by the player, therefore the drop rates of the RNG/loot table of Unreal games are random.

No surprises here: the distribution of outcomes mirrors what we can predict, but the actual individual outcomes (I’m not showing all 100K for obvious reasons) are most assuredly unpredictable

A distribution of true random events would have marked clustering and long periods with no event. That is not the case in BL2. When you farm for a Lyuda for 90 runs without getting a drop, get 2 drops in 300 runs, or get 27 drops in a row, then I would say that the system is random. but if you’re getting a drop about once every 10 runs and get about 10 drops every 100 runs, that’s a very even distribution.

He says about the Pete farmer who observed exactly 15 drops in 5 straight sets of 100 runs that “15-18 would be expected”. No, a system of random events would have no such expectation. Random outcomes do not have even distribution over a specific range. Borderlands 2 boss drops do. You can’t predict which specific drop will be a legendary, but the distribution of drops over a range is not random at all.

If you expect a specific distribution over a range - that’s not a random system. You will not see an ‘expected distribution’ of real dice rolls over a range, even though the six faces are not weighted - that’s random.

Ooo definitely drops the interfacer, dunno about the hawk eye.

As I mentioned a couple posts back, I got Hawkeye drops on consecutive OOO kills last week.

Didn’t read all the posts. But, that’s good to know he drops that as well.

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Actually, with 1 in 10 odds and the games RNG system, that’s exactly what might happen to one player. As @hattieinduni summarised nicely, the game does NOT keep track of previous results from the RNG: every single time you kill OOO is the first time as far as the loot system is concerned.

100 trials is way too small for solid statistical inferences, but it’s not bad. There was some updating of the original drop rates survey, but my copy of the spread-sheet is on my other computer. I will try and send you a link (or at least post the OOO data) when I get home tonight.

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:grin:

I asked a mathematician for the answer to that riddle of how probability resets with each individual coin toss, but it’s very unlikely for heads to come up 2000 times in a row. Unfortunately mathmos have that look when an arts student asks a question like that and I didn’t get a definitive answer :stuck_out_tongue:

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1/2000 odds, to be exact :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry, I just wanted to sound smart :frowning:

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Damn smart people, always being smart :angry:

/continues lifting up toilet seats in search of norfleet

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Should have asked a philosophy student instead. Or, more probably, several of them (in order to get a decent sampling of answers!)[quote=“Slif_One, post:51, topic:1547642”]
1/2000 odds, to be exact
[/quote]

Actually, it’s less than that: because the probability of a heads in any one toss is 1 in 2, the probability of 2000 heads in 2000 tosses is (1/2)^2000, which my calculator can’t handle. The odds for 200 tosses work out to ~0.6x10^-61, or incredibly small. For 20 tosses, it’s ~1 in a million The odds of getting 20 heads in a row out of 2000 tosses are much better.

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I believe I found an answer. I opened the game decided to get a Twister. 3 hours later I was frustrated because OOO didn’t show up. A friend of mine joined my game and we kept trying for another 2 hours. I was about to give up when he jokingly says: “We should try with another character, he probably hates Gaige xD”. The only character that had enough eridium was Salvador. 30 minutes later Omnd-Omnd-Ohk spawns and ends my agony with a double drop. Interfacer and Twister, baby!
So, my conclusion is: It looks like that he may drop a seraph, a Twister, none, or even both. “Did I mention that I don’t have a mathematical license?”


The Twister has Jakobs grip, Hyperion stock, but no accessory :frowning: So close to the perfect one

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That’s awesome. Others said they got a Lead Storm and Hawkeye from him; is it safe to assume he may also be able to drop an Infection?

Oof, there’s too much bad/incorrect mathematics/probability/statistics/RNG thinking going on in the thread…