Solving the Gun Balance Issues faced by Mayhem 2.0

Tunguska = 50k base damage, and 100k on second explosion (that on lvl 65 Mayhem 10 of course).

Fastball still needs a bit more damage, tested it today with new hotfix, and it was taking around 20% of normal enemies HP, one shotting only when criting with Moze, so it needs a bit more damage to be viable with other characters, need to one shot at least a normal non shielded enemy, just like it did in BL 2.

My problem is this premise. Was it officially stated that most guns should be viable in M10. Viable in my book means it can melt and you don’t get the feeling of bullet sponge.

It’s already discussed by other players from other discussions that M10 isn’t meant to make every gun viable.

You can do that already in M1 or Normal mode

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Well at the very least, everything that was good to great at M4 should still be viable. Its true M10 should make the game more difficult, and reduce build and gear versatility - but what worked very well at M4 should still work well now. At game release (M3), the Cutsman was insanely strong, Torgue shotguns worked god-tier on Fl4k, Lyuda was a beast, Maggie was a BiS for mobbing. When M4 came out - all these things held true, its just that weaker stuff (like Vladof pistols/ARs) got found out and became less viable. This sort of scaling makes sense.

But at M10, suddenly 90% of what of was good or great at M4 suddenly perform very mediocrely. And what remains viable weren’t the top dogs of M4, but rather new weapons introduced with M2.0, DLC3 and DLC4. This is what I mean that GB killed their diversity.

And clearly while it is not officially stated, GB is clearly trying to get most guns to be viable at M10 - lack of diversity is clearly a concern given the countless hotfixes they have spent since M2.0 trying to bring everything up (18 weapons were buffed yesterday). This thread isn’t a critique on GB bringing everything up, just that the way they are doing so is extremely haphazard and goes against good game design, and thus a more systematic method is recommended.


Tried linking the whole playlist.

I understand that this was before OP10, but is it really so unreasonable to not expect 90% of the game to become trash at endgame? Borderlands 1 and TPS didn’t really have anything fall off (one could argue they were too easy, but that is a discussion for another time) and even in BL2 there was still plenty of diversity at OP8 at least.


Well both ways can be reasonably expected. But at the end of the day you just have to accept not all reasonable things will be implemented or done correctly. Where’s the proof? BL3.

Edit: I reasonably expect not all guns will be viable in M10 where viable means I don’t have to hold the trigger for 2 hours to kill something sarcasm

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I don’t know if that should always be true. Otherwise we’d be using the same guns. But I don’t mind if I dont have to refarm and use my same loadout back in M4 and own M10 with it.

What would be the incentive for people to try the DLC guns and M6 to M10 only weapons if the same M4 loadout can melt M10?

I’d like to argue as well about level cap. I’m not a fan of level cap. I should be given the option to upgrade my godly loadout when I was level 50 to lvl 53, 57, 60, and to 65. My level 50 gear doesn’t perform at the same level when used at lvl 65. If you think about it, we want the same thing. Make our old guns viable at M10.

I don’t think guns from each subsequent DLC need to be stronger than the last for players to care, they just need to be good and have interesting abilities/interactions with class skills.


i think they should remove anointments from legendary weapons,
and give purple/blue rarity mision rewards anointments…

because of anointments anything but legendary is pretty much absolete and mision reward even more so as most of them can’t roll anointments (making them less powerfull then their world drop counterparts)

still using my masher clairvoyance from DLC2 on zane :smiley: easy to crit (especialy with galaxy brain) and i pretty much 1shot half the enemies on my screen :rofl: (given i have stacked AR and jakobs damage + jakobs crit damage)

i’d say it’s time to drop the stupid modifiers and actualy increase difficulty in this game… but hey… new skilltrees right? more powercreep

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While I understand that the viable weapon pool is small on M10, its still an improvement over endgame BL2 where each character had basically ONE build (besides Sal) and you needed very specific gear in order to survive the peak, and even then some of the mobbing areas and raid bosses were a real challenge. So, overall I think its better, but there is still room for improvement. The Hellwalker, Flipper, and Monarch are just stupid strong. I don’t even have a god roll anoint, and you can steamroll the entire game with these weapons. Grenades are a problem too, seemingly only existing to trigger anoints. Even with some recent buffs, I still never actually use grenades to do damage. Going back to play a little BL2, I forgot how easily I can get health gated, and am in FFYL constantly. For the most part, I find BL3 to be way too easy. Not really bosses, but mobbing specifically is too easy. So adding even more powerful weapons…I dunno if thats going to make the experience any better. Its all very complicated I’m sure, as the interactions between skills and weapons are far greater in BL3. I don’t know what the solution is? I agree that buffs to weapon classes or manufacturers would make more sense than specific legendaries. This is a looter-shooter…THE looter-shooter, and I don’t really do any looting anymore, as 99% of all drops are left on the ground. Purple rarity items used to be a great option sometimes. Now they are really only useable as you’re leveling. White rarity weapons are actually more rare than legendaries. Something is just off about this game. Its still a fun time kill, but the fact that I can handle all content very easily at max level with just about an hour of farming, is a bit of a problem. A few months ago I hadn’t played in a while, and needed to level up, and get M10 gear. I thought it would take a long time to acquire all the really good M10 weapons, but its was honestly rather quick and easy.


Updated the list to include weapons buffed in the recent hotfixes and included in Arms Race.

GB is still continuing in their method of haphazardly buffing random Legendaries with arbitrary values, making balance between Legendaries baffling, and leaving non-uniques irrelevant outside of Arms Race (at higher Mayhem levels). Sure, its easy just to pick 5-10 legendaries every patch and throwing an arbitrary buff - while balancing weapon classes takes more time and understanding of the game. But the latter method will always lead to a more interesting and elegant game.


i hate going off topic but wtf you talking about axton maya and zer0 play in plethora of different ways in OP endgame krieg at least has solid two choices between guns and melee and okay gagie is gagie she is walking anarchy this close enough that. but lol 1 build?


I would normally suggest this option as well except with the way they have chosen to balance legendaries has made them INSANELY OP outside of higher Mayhem levels

uhhh there are plenty of guns that are OPie OP for m11.

Just knock it back to Mayhem V1. Mayhem scaling was not required and the enemies still took additional bullets to take down.

With Mayhem scaling not being required, they only need to worry about the scaling of weapons from early to high levels.

Did people play an other game and playing an other version of BL3?

I did more then fine without legendaries in BL2 OP8…

And everything legendary is viable in mayhem 10… Just use some insane OP anointment

I like the idea of removing annoints from legendaries entirely and reducing enemy HP scaling to a more reasonable level.

With the way GB has been boosting underperforming legendaries to compete with top tier weapons, this would still allow legendaries to be the more powerful option (as they should be) while allowing a non-legendary with a good annointment to be completely usable. This also solves having to farm multiple copies of the same legendary to hope for that one annointment you’ve been dying to roll. This ALSO would allow grenades to potentially do noticable damage again which is sorely missed.