Some feedback on Moze after recent changes

Firstly, i think the recent changes have been very positive for BL3, and that the new western dlc is great. Playing as Moze however, it seems to me that Iron Bear has become overpowered after the introduction of action skill scaling. Perhaps IB is not scaling as intended? It appears to have had it’s damage output increased more than Amara’s action skills, whom i also play. Moze has some really good skills for her gunslinging while outside of Iron Bear, and i think that these have been diminished in value due to how much stronger IB is and Moze’s new optimum strength playstyle of maintaining IB as much as possible.
If IB is indeed scaling as intended, i would vote for it’s damage output to be reduced somewhat to reduce the disparity between Moze and IB’s damage outputs.

Additionally, if IB is scaling correctly, then instead of adjusting the scaling there is a skill adjustment that could be made that would both reduce IB’s dps and also give Moze access to some much needed accuracy increase. Scorching RPM’s Iron Bear damage increase could be changed to an accuracy increase.

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The new Iron Bear IS very powerful, but I think it should be. The underlying problem with Moze is that she has an action skill that replaces her damage output instead of supplementing it. When that action skill was weaker than she was with her gear, the result is that players solely used IB to proc their anointments. From a gameplay perspective, this was bad because it essentially made her a VH without a usable action skill. From a thematic perspective, it made no sense that anyone would build a combat mech that was actually weaker than a foot soldier.

Personally, I’d like to see Gearbox balance out the new IB by keeping its current damage levels but limiting or even eliminating ways to improve its cooldown and duration. Make IB more of a panic button that players can hit when they get into trouble, but only infrequently.


So let me get tis straight. Moze action skill remodels her. She becomes the iron bear, meaning she cant use her guns/moze skills etc etc. Now you are saying that the iron bear deals more dmg then moze, so why use her. Lets flip that question around. Moze now deals more dmg (like it used to be for months) then iron bear, so why use iron bear? Its her ACTION SKILL for godsake. I ain’t even a moze main but cmon now. Its a MECH, the damage should be insane. Now what gb should do however is make it so you actually need to invest into dmg skills in order for IB to wreck. So they could do some tweaking there. But to say IB needs to be on moze’s lv of dmg is laughable to me. Might aswel delete the whole action skill at that point.


the whole model is a fail xD
but i can use rocketeer now so i dont really care too much anymore xDDDD


How about after 10 months of having the weakest action skill, we don’t complain about it being powerful.

Iron Bear SHOULD be OP. It’s a freaking walking tank. It’s her ONLY action skill. It takes a long time to activate and deactivate, compared to other character’s action skills. It’s used for a short time with a long cool-down. Being OP is the proper balance to the downside of IB.


We should get the damage we have now with a full pilot build.
IB being more powerful than Moze only makes sense but he’s so OP it’s absurd, and you can easily have a 90% uptime.

They must either nerf a bit his damage or decrease his uptime by tweaking the cooldown or duration so it’s really a “berserk” mode.

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They mustn’t do a damn thing. IB has been viable two weeks out of ten months. If you don’t like it, don’t spec for it.


They shouldnt touch the uptime at all. give it a longer cooldown, but also make a small buff to the kill skill that reduces the cd by x seconds.

Now IB has the dmg, long cd, and u gotta get kills as moze to get him back faster. As it should be


I haven’t spec in IB. And i still don’t like it. Personal opinion. And i’m as salty as the community that IB was useless for eight months. But getting from “Not even scratching Wotan’s shield” to “Wrecking his shields bar in seconds in M10 by simply using action skill without proper gear or skills” is a bit overtuned imo.
Is that so impossible to believe ?

I would absolutely be OK with IB’s current damage if it was with a Raging Bear build for example.

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Uptime and CD are fine as they are, it’s rather bad if you don’t invest into it and it should be good if you do.


Honestly, all this calls for nerfs now of all times are making my brain cry. It’s the AS with the longest cooldown and the only one that removes its user from the battlefield; it is powerful, but with a price.

Amara can literally lock and delete an entire battefield with ties that bind, zane can be invincible while his AS are active and keep them up indefinitely, fl4k can disappear from the battlefield or aggro all the enemies away while they shoot the crap out of them undisturbed but nooooo, buhuh IB is now too powerful. What’s wrong with you people :expressionless:


Didnt you know? God forbid any VH getting close to amara/zane level.


Yes i agree, but i think we all know that IB will receive some kind of nerf. So if they wanna nerf it, that would be the best way to do it. Keep the power, increase cd, force ppl to play moze to get IB back.

But ye everyone who is crying about IB dmg is probs a Amara main


indeed I happen to hold the opposite opinion. Is ties that bind overtuned?

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I would in fact only agree to a minimal extent. IB does not need nerfs, just slight adjustments. Take a third off from the scaling and it would be fixed, if it even needs that much. Also, not all of IB’s weapons are good now, the Salamander as a whole is still pretty bad, although Molten Roar is fine on the initial damage - it just needs a much stronger DoT. Due to how… just alright the Salamander is even on normal mode without Mayhem Gearbox could just increase it’s base damage and be done with it.

As I see it Iron Bear is now as strong as we had hoped before the game came out, but is way too easy to just have it stand there and delete everything. Lowering it’s scaling by a third would fix that and would make building around Iron Bear worthwhile while not making “Vanilla Bear” worthless. But again, the Salamander still needs a buff in my opinion.

Another approach would be to modify all big bosses of the game (all enemies with the big boss health bars) to actively resist action skill damage. That would hurt Zane quite a bit too, but he is in that good of a position that he’ll be fine just from equipment alone.


When Auto Bear can solo Wotan at M10 (and he’s more than up to the task), something’s a little broken IMO. Drop down into the arena, press the win button, and just sit back and have a beer and watch Wotan get owned. Granted, it’s a beautiful sight but… cmon. :slight_smile:

This is a toughie to balance out though. But if any adjustments are made, I’d definitely lean towards doing something with the cooldown and/or duration, fuel usage, or the skills that affect them. Keep the damage as it is, as has been said Iron Bear is supposed to be a badass mech and should be dealing out the punishment since Moze and her gear is mostly unavailable while he’s active (unless you’re specced into Auto Bear, you have a Rocketeer COM, etc.)

Though on the other hand, I’m not quite sure what all they did to Moze’s splash damage abilities, but it just seems to be it’s a lot easier to knock yourself out of IB now, if you’re too close while dealing out splash damage. A little unintentional balancing I guess heh.


Amara’s damage is through the roof, but IB is "too"powerful… what a load of croc.


I have to disagree here, the best way to “nerf him” IMO is to go after how IB interacts with the Mind Sweeper CM. That’s what really makes builds which have otherwise zero investment into IB one-shot boss type enemies. Not that this is unique to him but it’ll shut up most of the complains without affecting the builds with are actually more IB centric.

Nah I’d say Moze being the “weak one” for too long after the initial nerfs attracted a small but vocal part of the playerbase which wants to stay away from anything which is considered to be “meta” or “strong”. IMO these are the people complaining the most along with some casual players who look at some “IB one shots this and that” videos and think that it is IB who “ohkos” the bosses when in reality it’s micro grenade chains who actually do the work.

But you’re right Amara roflstomps the game harder than IB ever could and yet there is no prominent movement to nerf her.

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IB soloing Wotan? You mean Moze in IB soloing Wotan right? That means Moze unable to use her weapons, heavily investing into IB, is soloing Wotan. How is it different from Amara soloing Wotan?

Or even better: Zane’s clone soloing Wotan? Same thing, and even more hilarious.

About splash killing IB. It is exactly the same thing as Moze suiciding every 5 sec from her own splash. You didn’t see it in IB simply because before the buff he did so ridiculous low damage he couldn’t harm itself. Now his damage is higher so he has the same issue as its pilot. Insta-dies from his own splash as soon as anything comes close to him.


This is what I’m referring to specifically:

Not sure what the build is exactly, but I gotta admit it’s fun. :slight_smile: