Forgive me for my opinion, and maybe I don’t fully understand where you’re going with this, but:
Your idea seems less like borderlands 4 and more like borderlands 1 redux. Put another way, like a reboot of 1, but with a different plot and hunters, but with the same essence/feel.
I don’t see BL3 as leaving us with no remaining challenges in the universe, but rather that the thing that defines the galaxy(ies) has utterly changed. The destroyer is either re-contained (the only sensible option) or destroyed (possibly this, but doesn’t make sense).
But since the Destroyer was (temporarily) free, now too the Guardians are restless and free. We (humans/VHs) are now responsible for the vaults and all they contain… and as we were warned, there is a war coming.
I’d want Bl4 to further the overall story, not to be another telling of the story of another rag-tag group of misfits.
As far as vaults go, if the Guardians aren’t guarding them anymore, the vault monsters could be getting free on their own and terrorizing populations.
BL4 could easily be all of humanity against the Guardians and numerous vault monsters, which, to me, is a lot more exciting and interesting than scaling things back to the story level of BL1.
You’d be right, that’s generally the idea I’m implying. To recapture the feeling of the first game, with the established lore and characters from the first to our current game. I’m not implying we move away from the established lore and characters completely, just that we’re told the story of Borderlands through another perspective, because it’s what you said:
Yeah, with the Crimson Raiders as they are now, there’s no more real challenges. The Crimson Raiders have become a powerful fighting force, capable of crushing any challenge that stands in their way. Which is why I recommend that we focus on another group of vault hunters independent of the Raiders. That way, we’re not put into this narrative that we’re heroes trying to save the universe. As cool as it is, vault hunters are not heroes, they’re treasure hunters searching for powerful alien technology. In other words, loot and riches. But of course, there are other reasons one may hunt these vaults.
This is a perspective of this universe that would be interesting to explore. Maybe you’re a psycho looking to become the ultimate monster, an apex predator. Maybe you’re a scavenger looking to improve upon your station, and gain riches in hopes of securing some sense of control and power in your life. Maybe you’re someone who believes the vaults are divine, and seek to unlock it’s hidden secrets and powers. Maybe you’re just someone who hopped on the bandwagon, because you’re looking for a thrill. You’re either one or all three of these things if you’re a vault hunter. You’re desperate, you’re insane, or you’re a badass. None of these people start off as badasses, so they’d have to be one of the first two. I’m talking about perspectives in the Borderlands we have yet to explore, and could make for interesting new takes and characters in the series. Characters that are not out to save the universe, but make something of themselves.
They could join up with the Raiders by the end, that is a possibility. But not all people are going to welcomed among their ranks. The Raiders seem generally accepting, but so far, we’ve only just seen those who agree with their views and stances when it comes to the vaults and the megalomaniac(s) who seek them for their own gain. Morally, the Raiders seem like they’re in the right, but in actuality they’re still a group that is hoarding the contents of the vaults for themselves.
I think our next group should be free to make that choice. And it could work like this. By the end, we have the choice to join the Raiders in their cause or reject them. If we agree, we become part of their group, but we retain our independency, so we’re free to carry on as we please. If we reject them, it means we reject them, we do not stand with them, but we’re not against them. We have our own reasons for hunting the vaults, we don’t seek to be heroes, we seek what it is we desire.
In war, there will always be sides. Humanity won’t ever unite in a common cause in this universe, never completely. Which is the point, you are not meant to be the one fighting against the chaos, because you are very much part of the mayhem. Which is why I think there should be more choice in the next game. Like we encounter groups we can side with or fight against. Each choice will have a consequence that affects how certain NPC’s in game will regard you, and will determine who becomes your enemies and who becomes your allies. Can’t really do that with the Raiders, cause if Ava is still the bleeding heart that she is in this game, she’ll realistically make that call for you. How you choose to play the game, is how you choose to play the game. You have no narrative forcing you down a linear path, but see the Borderlands through the perspective of each individual character, and make choices that determine you’re overall playthrough.
The final point of starting with a new batch of characters, it restores that challenge to the game. Yeah, the Raiders can clear out the vaults and their content, but this group can’t…at least not yet. It’s possible that the next story could be about this group trying to play catch up to the Raiders. We face trial after trial of hardships, only to find that the vaults and the beasts inside have already been cleared. It’s when we face that final boss, which is likely to be some kind of abomination from the vaults, that our group is ready to take on the likes of a vault monster. Or we could reach the vaults before anyone else, and there is a mechanic to having to defeat a vault monster. Vault monsters should not be giant bullet sponges, they should be bosses that make your characters feel like they are fighting for their lives, because they are. Tools, technology, or the environment itself should be utilized as a means to defeat this terrifying foe, until your character is finally powerful enough to fight off the beasts themselves.
To be fair, I don’t think your idea is a bad one. I just don’t think it feels like what I imagine BL4 would be.
I’d be happy playing something like that, though. Maybe if they released it as a side game (full size, but canonically “adjacent” to this one) similar to the Pre-Sequel.
Conversely, it could also make an interesting DLC for this current game.
Or a third idea: release these as a subscription of vignettes. Maybe even track the choices of the playerbase, so that the majority of choices become canon.
I agree that not all of humanity would unite. Some would betray our race to the Guardians. But, that said, I don’t think the Crimson Raiders are clearly more than a match for an army of Guardians plus rampant vault monsters. There is still a challenge larger than that of Tyreen and Troy.
On top of that, the Destroyer’s bonds were weakened, and i don’t think it makes any sense that it was truly killed (if the entire race of the Eridians couldn’t do it, I don’t think our mere guns could).
Add to that the potential for the Eridians to come into play (I believe that Nereid says in one of her statements that oblivion might have been kinder to them, suggesting that they’re held in some sort of stasis to chain the Destroyer). Could be that the Eridians are back as well.
I agree with most of what you’re saying here. I think TPS and Tales did a lot of what you’re suggesting, really well, and gearbox should try to build on that.
I’d definitely love to see the next game branch out and explore newer character ideas. B2 and B3 VHs mostly felt similar, not in personality so much as in approach, if that makes sense. They’re all warriors seeking the vault for power. It’d be great to have new characters with different approaches and goals.
They definitely need to find a way to scale it back, rather than having each new set of VHs be more powerful, as power creep just makes early characters seem weak, as you say. The latest batch of characters should be powerful, but not as OP as previous ones.
Starting a game as new characters on a new planet would be great. They could eventually meet up with characters from previous games, in order to continue the larger storyline of the Borderlands universe, but it would allow for more character development. Too many games and films are becoming obsessed with furthering their own "universe"s, to the point where they let each individual story slip in quality.
I’d love to see B4 start with a vault monster being unleashed by a lousy VH, who fails to defeat it, and the monster wreaking havok on a city. Your characters are all just normal people that are there, and forced to deal with the consequences. Your success in doing so is what leads them to becoming VHs. They become badasses, rather than starting as badasses.
Yes. The family theme really worked in B3, but having a mega-war focus for B4 would work really well with a theme around personal conflicts. I’d like to see rival VHs (not the big bad antagonist, just NPCs and small antagonists) that you encounter and either interact with a little, or face off against.
I think B3 shoved too much into the main story, whereas it would have been good to have a few major subplots as a string of side missions. Like getting the Jacobs company back, or defeating Katagawa Jr. I’d like B4 to make more big side missions, especially personalised ones for each character. So, you’d only be able to play them with that character, but having others in co-op would earn more dialogue and reveal more information, like you say.
One of the things I loved best about B2, in particular, was the idea that it’s hard to tell whether you are the hero or not. Jack thinks he is and you’re trying to stop him, but what he’s doing seems kinda evil. It’s more a matter of perspective than black or white. I’d like B4 to make it hard to tell who is “good” and who is “evil”, even when they’re helping you or fighting against you.
Love the character ideas being raised, and how they FEEL different. Hopefully some of these ideas do get incorporated in future games, in some way.
I’d love to see a big RPG game, set in the worlds of the borderlands. Giving players more choices and affecting the endings to a greater degree. Like how Tales was an adventure game in the same world, instead of a looter shooter. Something that expands the world and introduces new characters, without taking anything away from the series. Not sure gearbox would want to go this route, but maybe they’ll work with another company in the future. Who knows?
They have tried this before with the pre-sequel, I don’t think they’ll be willing to try this again. Some people say 3 is what the pre-sequel should have been. Others complain that the story and characters of 3 were not fleshed out enough, or not true to continuity. This idea is better off being it’s own game in continuation of this story because the biggest threat to the galaxy was the twins. They eliminated any possible threat to claim the vaults. Not only that, the Crimson Raiders went to the core worlds that held the keys to the machine that was meant to keep the destroyer from breaking free. Don’t see how any of what I suggested could happen in conjunction to the events of 3, as the Calypsos and the Raiders were the only ones aware of these vaults, and could unlock their secrets.
Hence why this new group of vault hunters should have their own game in continuation to the story. You’re meeting new characters, new factions, and are utilizing a different means to find and open the vaults. Remember that keys need to be charged to open the vault, and the key itself is usually split up into pieces. You’re relying on these groups you must either ally or fight against to find both the vaults and key fragments. And if we travel off worlds, then that means we have to utilize a different means of transportation.
Of that, I’m kinda 50/50 on, yes there could always be a bigger threat. But Tyreen leeched the power of the destroyer until she herself became the destroyer. Plus, don’t forget, we took down multiple vault monsters. They’re not so much a challenge, as more a stepping stone at this point in time for the Raiders. It’s fair to say that the vault monsters themselves could be dealt with by the corporations if they had competent people leading them.
All good points, but what if we’re given the choice to side with the Eridians? What if they could become your allies in hunting for the vaults? What if you could make them your allies or enemies in the upcoming war. If you side with the Crimson Raiders, and make the Eridians your allies, then you’re adding to an already powerful force. Or if the Eridians are against the Raiders, and you side with them, our characters could end up fighting against the Raiders. Potential is there, but for a story this large, it wouldn’t make much sense for DLC. Besides, not all factions of humanity will take a side, because they’re on their own side. It’s not just black and white, but many different shades. War has the potential for many different stories and characters to come into play. Moving away from the Raiders would be tbe best way to tell that story.