[Spoilers] Anyone Else Feel Sorry for Rendain?

There is a difference between surrendering, and being a d*ck while doing so.
He basically treat others badly (In the prologue, he compare the deaths of a couple of Sustained to thousands of Thralls, and call them “beasts”) He attack peoples who don’t follow him. He even help the Varelsi. He also want “Some” to survive, but not everyone. And then we have some of his subalterns who practice tortures or “cleansing” (“OH MY GOD THE GROVE IS ON FIRE”).
Definitely a bad guy. Not a psycho like Jack, but still a bad guy.

Also, one guy acted like Rendain in my country. It was in the '40s.
Didn’t worked well for him either, i tell you.

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I got this far and had to reply… Jack kept claiming he was the Hero for the ENTIRE GAME even at his death he was like “but im the hero and your all bandits”

Also rationalizing your genocide doesn’t make it any better… Because end of the day it’s still genocide, thats like saying “the worlds ending so we’re taking all the white people and going because hey, we can still save some people they just gotta be my people”

I do feel he wasnt as malicious as other villans have been in the past or other games, but i wouldn’t feel sorry for him since he clearly has no care for the other factions, going as far as going out of his way to destroy ekkenar and all their knowledge instead of just fortifying his defenses and planing to take the star, if he had spent all those troops on keeping the heliophage alive that would make more sense.

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Just quoting this since I wonder about one thing since I beat the Heliophage - why did he saved pieces of Ekkunar & Bliss too? The “island” is not pure Jennerit. It seems like he has at least some regards for the aspects of the other factions/worlds…
(Theres the sad thing of missing Rendain-lore -.- all just guesses and thoughts… My inquiry-organ wants more ToT )

I enjoyed the dialogue between him and his underlings, I love his confusion and shock at them being scared of him despite treating them reasonably, I would like to think that word of mouth and gossip is the reason for it rather than him actually doing anything bad, so it catches him off guard.

I think everyone is forgetting the motion comic which explains that the Jennerit Empire has assisted the Varelsi in taking 301 stars. He didn’t suddenly make this alliance with doom impending on their doorstep, he made it much earlier, and he directly helped the Varelsi kill millions, if not billions, of people. Although I still find him sympathetic to an extent, I believe if he was genuinely thinking of everyone’s well being, he would have discussed this with the other galactic communities and factions beforehand.

I also respect him for what he says after the first phase of his boss fight, where in he admits that you are probably a better fighter, but explains that he is quite desperate to succeed, and that pride is not his downfall.

That immediately makes him more intelligent than most villains out there (even if he isn’t quite a straight up villain).

Rendain is all about Rendain. He’s not trying to save anything but himself. Just another narcissistic psychopath who thinks he’s the goodguy. Pretty common delusion actually.

To be perfectly fair… i think that the islands design was just a creative thing and not really a look into what the void of his looks like, just using areas of different maps to make a dynamic looking boss fight, since he’s also pulling in people you’ve killed im not sure anything in there should be fully taken at face value

I got this far and had to reply… Jack kept claiming he was the Hero for the ENTIRE GAME even at his death he was like “but im the hero and your all bandits”

To be honest, he was an actual hero until repedeatly betrayed and backstabbed by the people he trusted. You can track his gradual descent into madness through the Pre-Sequel, with the final stroke being Lilith striking vault symbol through his face, which turned him into complete maniac and killed anything good that was still left in him (as Athena herself said - that was when the hero who said Elpis died).

His paranoia became obvious when he decided to vent scientists out of fear someone among them might double-cross him, but the real thing here is not this his decision, but the fact that Roland and Lilith stood there and did NOTHING, just watched and made it look like they were OK with this, while they could have easily argue Jack out of doing this or even force him not to do this - he’s just one man, and not even a skilled fighter to begin with. They did nothing to prevent him from descending into madness, but added to it by later betraying him and trying to kill him, which Lilith also added upon by that final strike (completely idiotic and sadistic deed on her part, she could have killed him and prevent the enitre genocide by his hands later, but instead she made him the Handsome Jack we are seeing in BL2). If anything, I consider Lilith the real villain of the BL2 and Pre-Sequel, because it’s ultimately her doing. It’s sad, because Roland were obviously conflicted by backstabbing Jack and regretted it, while Lilith and Moxxy didn’t, but it was the Roland who gave his life for this in the end, and those two bitches lived. And in the end, Lilith wanted to execute Athena for saving Elpis - that was the most hypocritical thing to do EVER, and turned Lilith 100% villain in my eyes and the scourge of Borderlands franchise overall. Even BRICK tried to talk her out of killing Athena, goddamn BRICK! When Brick tries to talk you out of killing somebody - there is obviously something wrong with you. And to think she was my favorite character in the BL1. Disgusting.

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Yes, but Jack wasnt innocent even before TPS. Borderlands 2, Moxxi: Hey! Until he set all those people on fire, Jack seemed like a pretty decent guy. I read that like she dumped him after he did that, and they had broken up before TPS, The whole timeline is a little here and there, but since he has been using angel most her life i cant see him being a “good guy”. I mean Helios was made to destroy entire towns that dosnt seem real hero type thing to do. I do think Lilith should of killed him, but on the same time she destroyed the artifact he was using, she didnt know what it did so maybe destroying it was enough. I mean everything he did was to be rich and powerful (and then later demand people never swear, talk back, or do anything HE deems wrong) He was using angel to get the vault open for him to use to make money. But still its all here and there.

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The thing she refers to must have happened after his maniacal ascent, it is evident he never killed anyone before the TPS events. When we meet Jack in TPS, he’s an underling sucking up to his superior. And that Angel was dangerous and accidentely killed her mother (and Jacks wife) is a common knowledge, and also a reason why Jack decided to contain her power and prevent her from hurting anyone else or herself.

Before he became a full-scope villain in BL2, he was a sort of anti-hero. And one of the points of the Helios laser was indeed to destroy entire towns. With no freidnly casualties. You know, because 99% of Pandora’s population are bandits and crazed psychos which attack you on sight, and main heroes of BL1 and BL2 wiped entire towns of them, just on foot and with regular weapons/powers.

The artifact he was using only contained knowledge, and the knowledge was being poured into Jack, so no point in just destroying artifact. Lilith should have killed him right there. Instead she scarred him both physically and mentally, gave birth to a person who killed her beloved one (funny thing, in mythology “Lilith” is a name of a mother of demons). Karma.

Everything he did before going full Handsome Jack was for the greater good. He wasn’t selfless that’s all. It’s not a regular good guy who just wants to save the world, it’s the guy who wants to save the world and have something to show for it afterwards. It seems more human to me. Good for the sake of good is too boring. And his approach was actually practical, and the way most modern military superiors would operate.

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Jack was always a narcissistic psychopath/sociopath. You just get to see more and more of his true self and the story progresses. Sure, a lot of the events fed into his darker nature but it was always there. What you see at the end of the game when he dies was always there. That is who Jack is underneath the mask. Who he always was.

That’s just not true. The thing in Borderlands 2 is not Jack, it’s an abomination created by Lilith at the end of the TPS. It is not his true self that you see as the story progresses, it’s him being shaped by the circumstances he encounters. Imagine yourself under the pressure he underwent in such short term. Let’s remove Meriffs attempt on his life after he LET HIM GO despite Meriff betraying him. Would he vent those scientists? No. (And he did it for a reason, because one of them specificly mentioned that the signal can be disrupted from within, meaning any of them could’ve done this.) And we’ll just drop the fact that the act of venting them was preventable by anyone it that room willing to prevent it, but they somehow didn’t. Now, the backstabbing from Lilith and Moxxy - what was his reaction? He took it personal, like any decent person would, but decided to set it aside until they were finished with the vault. And then, when the Lilith striked, and the last bit of his sanity shattered - then the whole bullcrap with bandits, saving Pandroa and everyting else started spilling.

Jack was not perfect, or even good for the matter. Was he greedy and narcissistic? Yes. But he got the job done, he saved Elpis, and this is what counts. Actions.

The thing he got turned into - whole different story. But the people to thank for this are our beloved Lilith and Moxxy.
I sincerely hope I’ll get to kill Lilith in Borderlands 3.

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You can’t say he was a hero and then say he’s wasn’t good… Kinda mixed messages there. Truth is little is known about his wife, but its known he’s had angel under his command for most her life to the point where she resents him, she’s been captive since she was a child, if it was to keep her safe he wouldn’t force her to do things for him. Sure he gets worse after TPS but he wasn’t a hero to start with. He did some things that can be construed as heroic, sure he “saved” Elpis, but only because it had what he wanted down there, Same reason he opened the vault, for his own gain. These are not the calling cards of a hero. Quick look at wiki.

A hero (masculine) or heroine (feminine) is a person or main character of a literary work who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through impressive feats of ingenuity, bravery or strength, often sacrificing his or her own personal concerns for some greater good.

We (the players) did alot of the fighting for him so i could argue he didnt really do the feats himself, he didnt kill the sentinel either. He was almost entirely driven by personal gain. He said he was trying to save Elpis, and he wasn’t wrong but it was purely for the vault, that was his entire goal the whole game. He also made angel manipulate the first gen VH into finding and killing the destroyer for him, no matter how you shine the light he was never a hero to start with.

Key word is often in often sacrificing. This does not mean always therefore instances of personal concerns do exist. Also he was pretty impressive with his ingenuity, bravery, and strength

He was smart no doubt, but so are most sociopaths, But as i said, he did things that could be classed as “heroic” but as a whole he wasn’t a hero before TPS

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This thread has also gone completely off topic… … … … No, i dont feel sorry for Rendain, genocide is genocide no matter how you paint it.

But on the same notion i feel there really isn’t enough character depth or back story to really merit any deep theories,
Did he do what he thought was right? Yes. Was it right? Noooot so much. But i wouldn’t feel sorry for him in anyway because to be fair, they didn’t kill him? Just sucked him into V-space which we really have little to go on

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I can. Hero does not equals good. Hero equals saves the day. Which Jack did. Google “anti-hero”.

I got that same feeling for a time with the ending of the first mass effect. Saren originally wanted to save what he could from the reapers, knowing their victory was inevitable. So he made a deal with them to basically become slaves but they would be spared. Though he more and more dillusional and there was a brainwashing element involved early in his conversion he did have this same thought as rendain. The difference though to me was by the end you could see that the reapers could control minds and his will was totally lost in the end. Though if you built up enough paragon/renegade with him you can convince him it’s better to fight than live as a slave. And that he was already lost, so he could only end his own internal conflict by talking his own life.

I’m not saying the stories are the same as mass effect was an amazing epic adventure and battleborn is more or less just individual episodes that are loosely connected. But the feeling you describe is somewhat similar

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To bad the reapers reanimated him so you had to kill him anyways

Yeah I remember that I was like aww come on. Thought I was getting off easy

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While I do agree that Lilith played a major role in creating Handsome Jack, there’s also some pointers that he wasn’t all that good even before that.

There are some holotapes in BL2, for example, that clearly imply Jack’s wife was still alive when he imprisoned Angel.