[Spoilers] So I watched the Animatic, and honestly, it just feels like Damage Control

Are you seriously telling me they removed such a crucial scene from the game, that could actually help people not hate Ava’s guts, or at least not hate her as much as she is hated right now?

I sincerely think that there is no way they would’ve just scrapped this scene from the game, because it just looks out of place, given the whole mood of the game, with the twins constantly mocking you every 10 steps you take, so are you gonna tell me they wouldn’t just interrupt the funeral and go “WhaaaAAAAAAAAT’S UP, SUPERFAN!” in the middle of the ceremony?

To me, this animatic was just something they cooked up recently, as in an attempt to try to redeem Ava and shiped with this season pass, so that they could do some sort of damage control, or else, why wasn’t this added to the game to begin with, instead of just some random animatic?

But if this was indeed cut out, then holy crap, they REALLY need to restructurate their developer’s team and revaluate their decisions when developing future games…

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The interview points out the stages of development for the scene we got, which explains why it is so on the nose. They did have some foresight, but also 20/20 hindsight.

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One of my guesses is they put most of this together after a year of backlash, trying to fix just about every complaint the community had. However, I believe that some of it was done before the game’s release (Krieg was originally going to be in the main game).

As it stands, adding the funeral or the post vault scene wouldn’t work due to how much would have to change to make it fit neatly into the game story.

Just my opinion though

People tend to forget that animation, no matter the medium, takes a lot of time and resources.

Regardless of whether or not this animatic was cut pre-production or made as “damage control,” making an animatic is far more cost effective than going all out.

The funeral was presumably a unique location, which would have had to be fully modeled. Stack that onto all the additional lighting and cinematography that tend to go into the game’s cutscenes, and you got quite the workload.

Great things get scrapped because they’re too… ambitious? I don’t think that’s the word I’m looking for, but it’s along the same lines. Happens with a lot of properties, unfortunately.

… Or I guess insert something about the writers being less competent than monkeys. That seems to tickle this forum’s fancy.

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Not sure what to make of it. This could’ve easily been an earlier draft of the story with some voice work over it, then at some point cut for whatever reason (not enough time, rushed development, resources, etc). They did the same thing with MA BOY Krieg, as he was originally in the main story as a CR spy infiltrating the COV, then we would rescue him on Promethea IIRC. So I wouldnt rule it out entirely.

However, looking at this “deleted” scene and remembering what we actually got, it just screams damage control to me. The backlash was probably far more severe than they had anticipated (and frankly effin’ deserved) because of the way it happened, and how it was handled afterwards on Sanctuary. Half of Tannis’ dialogue was basically made for cheap laughs, Lilith gave a 5 second speech, and almost immediately everyone’s forgotten about it. Not a peep or reaction from anyone else that Maya fought for back on Pandora (Moxxxi, Ellie, Marcus, etc). Way to treat a beloved and fan favorite character from your entire franchise, guys… :+1:

Oh, and not to mention the backlash towards Ava who for some reason, GBX has decided is the “face” of this franchise going forward. Instead of cutting their losses and possibly forgetting about her being the new Commander, they’re doubling down and trying to salvage this character in anyway they can.

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IMO they have fallen into one of the pitfalls of writing. They fell in love with the project, and now they only have a few options going forward.

  1. They treat the deleted scene as if it never existed and try to work out the story from there.
  2. They say that the deleted scene is canon, thus invalidating what happened in the game. (retconning the story to try and save Ava’s story arc)
  3. Retcon BL3 out of the lore and start anew (more companies seem to be doing this for lesser reasons)

Just my opinion though

Having watched ALL of the animatics now, including the effing amazing manufacturer commercials, I have a question:

Why the hell weren’t just about every one of these cinematics (at the very least the ones that were nearly finished) in the game to start with? It appears to me that most of these existed at the time the game was released. Note the presence of what appears to be the Ruiner, the janky animation, etc. I am unclear on whether the Maya thing was done after the fact. It appears there is at least a chance it existed prior to release in some form. Has GBX addressed this at all?

The game is already really, really long. Did they really care that much about length to cut some of this stuff?

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I have a more mundane question: why is it so goddarn small in the bonus viewver? I can barely see or read anything :joy: Vladof text is somewhat readable but Tediore I can t make it out

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Go to you tube and watch eruptionfang he’s spot on about ava . And I believe they will double down on ava no matter the cost their egos are more important than borderlands in any way shape or form.

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A big complaint with this game is how much time you have to spend going around just talking to people. Imagine the uproar from the people who don’t care about the story if they had to spend ten minutes of each playthrough on a funeral scene.

Pacing is the most likely reason something like this would get cut, but it still doesn’t make what they replaced it with any better.

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Here’s the co-lead writer’s comment about the scene:

TL;DR: He declared that the scene was in the original script but was subsequently cut. The animatic and voice acting were made later, specifically for the Director’s Cut.

I know, right? I’m still waiting for someone to extract those concepts. Why can’t we view the Behind the Scenes stuff in full screen?

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Yeah, agreed. I kept trying to find the button to play the cinematics in full screen, not sure why they are embedded in a mini-player.

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Didn’t they allow you to skip them in less then six months of release?

IIBPO, the pacing of this game was still fairly bad. (Felt like they had their foot on the gas the whole time. When it comes to the funeral scene, it feels almost like a 180 from from we got.

Just my opinion though

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This was the point I was trying to make, which is that the game is already very bloated. I don’t understand how including a scene that actually develops a mutual bond between Lilith and Ava slows anything down as far as pacing. It wouldn’t have had to be as long as the cut cinematic that we got, but it sure would have done a nice tribute to Maya in the same way Roland received that in the Tina DLC and the statue at Roland’s Rest.

Just a little more closure and a little more development of Ava’s character (and frankly Lilith’s character also) would have helped quite a bit.

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The sad thing is they could have added some of that scene’s elements into DLC 4. (or even had some form of a still image during credits of the main game.) If this was truly cut content, I have hard to believe that they didn’t think about that as a possibility.

The problem I see going forward is GBX may try and use that animatic instead of the in-game scene for lore/story purposes, or I could be wrong, and they try and work with want they had from that actual release. Either way, they are going to have a tough time from now on.

The Ava MM IMO is already showing signs that they may be retconning the story going forward.

Just my opinion though

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Cutscenes yes, so it depends on how they would have actually implemented the scene into the game. I doubt it would have been one long cutscene sequence.

Yeah, that’s probably another reason so many of the characters feel so shallow this time around. No story in the game gets a chance to breathe. But that doesn’t mean weren’t at least trying to make the pacing better in parts, it just means they weren’t 100% successful.

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True, some definitely worked better than others. I personally found several of the side missions flowed great. Life of the party, and Baby dancer come to mind.

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I am just playing the final Ava’s MM mission (I thought I had finished playing them but it appears there are at least 4 instead of 3 like I thought - just a reminder that I am a dummy who doesn’t read :rofl:). My opinion is that the character of Ava, and the story of BL3 in general, would have been much better received if there had been a post-game-completion optional mission and/or sidequest that had the VH fighting alongside Ava, as we do in the 4th Ava’s MM.

The key thing with this mission is that you get to see Ava in action. When I was playing through alongside Ava (which I really wasn’t even thinking about, honestly - I actually had figured it would just be an escort mission like the Claptrap one), and she started fighting, I was surprised. And then I noticed that a Manta was Phaselocked, and I said to myself - “Wait, who is Phaselocking things?” And then I quickly answered my own question - “Oh yeah, Ava - cool!”

This is a great segue, from a story perspective, into allowing the player some understanding into what it means both to and for Ava as a person that she has become a Siren, and also introducing the player to the fact that Ava is now learning to use what used to be Maya’s powers, and just kind of being a badass. And yelling out stupid teenager things when she kills something. It’s really pretty great.

@Noelle_GBX I usually try not to tag you too often, but I would appreciate it if you could share my post with the writers in some way. In my opinion, this is excellent writing and storytelling - mostly environmental from the outset and then proceeding more directly. Well done.

And I know my post could be considered slightly off-topic perhaps, but I believe it relates more to the general idea expressed in this thread that there should have been some sort of more significant development of Ava’s character in the base game of BL3.

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