Squadron/Single-Ship Production Design/Balance Brainstorming

Funny thing to me is I don’t see any HW1 guys I know arguing for squads for HW1, and no HW2 guys arguing for single ship for HW2. I say leave the builds, and the replenishes as they are. It appears as there are a few pointing to the other side saying “they need to change”. You take replenish away from HW2 and HW1 is going to own them.

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I think this all is happening because GBX didn’t understand what people meant by saying they wanted formations working.

They read what people said and didn’t understand what they really meant, that the issue was in behavior and not that “ships don’t stay in a pretty shape”.


So now they’re spending all this time on this “dynamic squadron” thing that’s likely going to make no one happy unless it can somehow not require a bunch of extra commands and to just work as well as strike groups, and the behavior issues will still be there.

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No, we want that also, make no mistake. look at the thread I posted asking what people liked about HW1 formations. Effectiveness, Management, and Visual were all things that people liked.

But in HW1 that’s not how it worked. I just watched a video on it to make sure for myself.
Ships would break formation in attack. Like when you did an aggressive claw they swept over stuff, they broke out of formation considerably though they still overall stayed together. The difference was they wouldn’t randomly break off all over the place thousands of meters away from one another. I think even walls would break up a bit until given a movement order where they’d then reform tightly again?
Now sphere, yeah, had really special behavior where they’d rigidly stay in place, but squads aren’t needed for that. the only reason that doesn’t happen in formations now is because of their “AttackRun” behavior.

You guys are misunderstanding that these ships don’t break formations because they’re not in squads, or because every HW1 formations programming(except sphere) had some special programming that kept them in place. They do it because of their attack behavior telling them to get wildly out of the position they were at.

If I just changed ships to a facing attack style and to not chase, and put them in wall formation, they’d stay in that wall formation.

Ok, the first thing you need to get out of your head is any fighter formation larger than 9 craft. Even 9 craft was rather inefficient, but some people still used them. I understand you may be confused watching videos or seeing post from SP campaign players talking about large formations of fighters. They didn’t exist in HW1 MP. At least not after the noob using them played a few games and was given a reality check. They are a none factor, forget about them.

Fighter formations in HW1 didn’t look much different that they do in HW2. The standard, default, most commonly used fighter setup was 5 craft in a claw and multiple claws.

Yes, the larger the formation the more they would break up. But again, this is due to attack behavior and not some magical pathing code that makes ships stay in a shape.

You also have to think of things in the context of fixing things on this engine. Squadrons aren’t going to do the things you want.

Yep, starting to understand that. Folks at relic news were pointing out on day one that the physic engine also played into how craft moved, not just how they shoot. Maybe there are some flight paths and behavior changes that can simulate, but I’m not to hopeful at this point. But the visual IS a big deal, and a surface deal breaker for many. It would probably be better to get them back at least looking like HW1 formations and them not be as effective then it would be to not get them back at all at this point.

I’m personally less concerned about fighter formations and more concerned about frigate and corvette walls.

I thought this as well, but it seems ships obey physics fine in “DogFight” AttackStyle like I showed in that video.

It seems AttackRun among others that are actually used by the strike craft just puts things on rails instead.

So the Engine has this physics support, and it’s working over the netcode, it just isn’t being used because of a few issues that need fixed when this behavior is used.

So you think you can reproduce Newtonian motion?

I already did. You must have missed it. I think most people did. Forums have been more active lately(which is a good thing)

Even though individual units will break off, they regroup. Tbh I think it works better than HW1s(And HW2s) except for a few issues that I pointed out and gave suggestions on how to fix.